Crufts Winner Or A Dog Who Looks Like He Needs To See A Vet?

[celeste]

I can certainly say with some confidence that it is a case of , who you know, when it comes to judging, I used to show Celeste, and it was obvious judges mates were being put up.

I was watching the Best in Show bit again this evening as I hadn't caught all of it, and I'm pretty sure that the Akita had something up with it's gait, it looked to me as if it had a problem with it's rear right leg, there's a tiny "hitch" in it's movement as it goes round , makes you wonder about the vet.

[blackmagic]

that poor dog looks deformed! Its hocks are not only really weak but are rotating inwards as well. Why is such exreme angulation desirable? Surely a weak hocked,banana backed dog cannot possibly do the days work that it was bred for!x

 

 

from the website of the GSD club of Devon

 

Many congratulations to Club member Carol Keen. Carol's dog, Clokellys Lagos, won "Best Dog" and "Best of Breed" at Crufts yesterday, 11th March 2010. This is a very great achievement for this local dog. Lagos has only recently returned from Germany where he qualified SchH3 so it has been a very special year for him and Carol so far! He is now well on his way to becoming a Champion.

 

Other members of the Club also qualified for and attended Crufts but didn't quite achieve the same success.[/i

 

his pedigree shows he has a very good hipscore

 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/645467.html

[BillyMalc]

The Kennelclub is a joke, it's a club of people full of themselves,having their matey judges judge their matey breeders, with the dogs suffering for it.

Mind you, when you find that your respected show is now called DFS Crufts, because only a cheap sofa chain wants to have anything to do with it, that must not sit right (bad pun intended!)

[gremlin22]

it's been quoted on other forums,as blackmagic says that this dog has good hip scores...how the hell do they work then? some people on other forums are claiming the footage doesn't show the true dog and it's very healthy and has a beutiful gait but can tv really make that big a difference?something seems very very wrong..

[tegk68]

I found it really disturbing. These Judges need throwing out. I understand the GSD club and KC have fallen out somewhat over the last few months. Anyone else heard similar....

[BilRed]

Bear in mind that to reach Crufts these dogs have to be Champions and win through from puppyhood - that means long before they reach the Best In Breed ring at Crufts they have been chosen as the best representative of their breed many times over

 

This isn't correct, a dog doesn't have to be a champion to be shown at Crufts. Qualifying is much easier than people imagine, for a young dog they don't have to win any class, just be placed in one class. It doesn't even matter how many are in the class i.e. if there are only two dogs in the class and they come second, that will still qualify them. It's not much harder for an adult dog and they don't have to be shown from puppyhood.

 

While I'm on the subject on popular misconceptions;

 

There is no such thing as a 'Crufts Champion' which is a phrase often used in the press.

A dog that wins at Crufts does not become a champion.

The prize money for the Best In Show winner is £100! This is considerably more than you get for a win at any other show.

 

I only know this stuff because I have a friend that shows her gordon setters, so I've asked her a bit about it over the years.

[cycas]

http://coldwetnose.blogspot.com/2010/03/gsd-world-call-for-caroline-kisko-to-be.html

 

Obviously this is a very emotional post from a biased source, but if this dog has indeed passed his Schutzhund title and an endurance test and has good hip scores, then I guess being judged well is fair enough and those that don't like the shape are making an aesthetic rather than a health judgement...

 

I can't help thinking in that case though that the idea of picking a healthy dog on how he looks from the outside is basically flawed?

 

That dog does looks odd, but if those strange looking legs are actually healthy, then picking a dog that 'looks' like he can work is obviously pointless. They should give up on the parading round a show ring which tells us nothing but 'I like THAT one' and set them all working trials to see if they are really any good or not.

 

 

[BilRed]

 

I can't help thinking in that case though that the idea of picking a healthy dog on how he looks from the outside is basically flawed?

 

That dog does looks odd, but if those strange looking legs are actually healthy, then picking a dog that 'looks' like he can work is obviously pointless. They should give up on the parading round a show ring which tells us nothing but 'I like THAT one' and set them all working trials to see if they are really any good or not.

 

From talking to my friend I can say that there is a lot more to judging a show than picking the one you like the look of, it's a very complicated process which is all about what is on the inside, the "construction" of the dog as my friend puts it. I don't have enough of a grasp to explain it properly but it is definitely not the beauty parade that people outside of showing think it is.

[Pingu]

fair doos

 

if the dog has achieved sch3 then it clearly can work.

[celeste]

fair doos

 

if the dog has achieved sch3 then it clearly can work.

 

 

Hmm, I'm still dubious, it may have passed it's SCH3 but that is nowhere near the same as the activity a genuine working dog would do, who works over rough terrain every day all day, it's a test, nothing more, 20 KM is quite a way ( about 12 miles) but I'm assuming the dog did it once, I used to walk my GSD that far when we went on a mega trek, he had mild HD, it just never bothered him, so I don't see that as any assurance the dog is as sound as the GSD club are trying to make out. The GSD club can rant and rave all they like, but the fact remains, the GSD of today is a very different animal to the original, and the ultra slanted back end is a recent fashion, I just think they don't like the way they are being singled out ( and who can blame them) and have chosen to fight their corner.

 

[cycas]

From talking to my friend I can say that there is a lot more to judging a show than picking the one you like the look of, it's a very complicated process which is all about what is on the inside, the "construction" of the dog as my friend puts it. I don't have enough of a grasp to explain it properly but it is definitely not the beauty parade that people outside of showing think it is.

 

I am not sure about that, because so many clearly unhealthy dogs have won. If this dog doesn't look like he can work, but can, good for him, but there is no question that conformation judges *have* selected dogs that could not breathe or walk properly.

 

I have a friend who is a scientist that studies how animals walk and function most efficiently : what he does requires a lot of very complex study, a certain amount of dissection and an awful lot of computer power to determine how efficiently the animal is really moving.

I am unconvinced that a bloke in an arena who runs his hands up and down the dogs legs is able to replicate that sort of thing, he may think he's doing something very complex, but...

[BilRed]

I am not sure about that, because so many clearly unhealthy dogs have won. If this dog doesn't look like he can work, but can, good for him, but there is no question that conformation judges *have* selected dogs that could not breathe or walk properly.

 

I have a friend who is a scientist that studies how animals walk and function most efficiently : what he does requires a lot of very complex study, a certain amount of dissection and an awful lot of computer power to determine how efficiently the animal is really moving.

I am unconvinced that a bloke in an arena who runs his hands up and down the dogs legs is able to replicate that sort of thing, he may think he's doing something very complex, but...

 

So judges should dissect the dogs to make sure they can move efficiently along side having computers, x-ray machines and microscopes in the ring, or should the whole process be a three week examination in a laboratory? What would the purpose of that be?

 

My contribution to this thread is intended to say that basically some of the comments here are not accurate with regards to the process of dog showing. I think the purpose of showing is frequently misread too. I do not say that the process is beyond criticism and I am not interested in setting myself up as a defender of dog showing, it is not my area of expertise or particularly interest either, however criticism based on false beliefs and no understanding of the subject are worthless. I have asked questions of people who know what they are talking about and listened to the answers with an open mind. The view that judging is "a bloke in an arena who runs his hands up and down the dogs legs" is at best very naive as people can easily find out for themselves if they choose to do some basic research.

[Ian]

fair doos

 

if the dog has achieved sch3 then it clearly can work.

 

 

Elsewhere ther have been doubts raised as to whether the Sch3 that working & shows dogs are required to meet is quite the same standard, suggestions that dogs only have to pass it once then never train again, are nodded through in order to be able to breed from etc.

 

 

http://coldwetnose.b...isko-to-be.html

 

Obviously this is a very emotional post from a biased source, but if this dog has indeed passed his Schutzhund title and an endurance test and has good hip scores, then I guess being judged well is fair enough and those that don't like the shape are making an aesthetic rather than a health judgement...

 

I can't help thinking in that case though that the idea of picking a healthy dog on how he looks from the outside is basically flawed?

 

That dog does looks odd, but if those strange looking legs are actually healthy, then picking a dog that 'looks' like he can work is obviously pointless. They should give up on the parading round a show ring which tells us nothing but 'I like THAT one' and set them all working trials to see if they are really any good or not.

 

As I'm sure you realise, good hip scores means he's got good hips, however odd his movement he's not in pain from them etc. It doesn't however guarantee he's healthy. CDRM for example is a problem in some German Shepherds, hard to diagnose, no testing for it, very unlikely to be picked up in a fit young dog, doesn't cause any pain or show up on xrays, even affect the dog until older. I'd be interested to know whether any ancestors of this dog have ever suffered it, or any other "back end issues", whether he does some years down the line etc

[Ian]

I have asked questions of people who know what they are talking about and listened to the answers with an open mind. The view that judging is "a bloke in an arena who runs his hands up and down the dogs legs" is at best very naive as people can easily find out for themselves if they choose to do some basic research.

 

I know which one I believe but why did your friend say / do you think they want to bother with these paltry prized dog shows, go on to become Crufts "champions" then - for the £100? For the pleasure of some "expert" judge deciding they have the best dog or for the money they can make out of saying my pups are born of / descended from a Crufts "champion" / winner ?

[gremlin22]

what is the advantage of a sloped back dog? why was it selected for in the first place. the old GSD's like in celestes post had straight backs, someone intervened and made them slanty backed. why if not for looks? i don't see any advantage from a physical point of view.They were originally a herding breed weren't they? or descended from at least and i don't see many collies with a slopey back.did i miss something?