Rudi Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 I haven't read the thread so sorry if this has been covered. I understand that the sheep have their throats slit with out stunning first. Does that happen in this country? I know it does in France.If it does, then it shouldn't be allowed. AFAIK farm animals in the UK have to be stunned first before slaughter and I believe its illegal not to do this. Ali It's not illegal - religiously slaughtered meat is exempt from the animals needing to be stunned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimthecat Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 I didn't realise. Thats terrible. Cruelty is cruelty and it shouldn't be allowed. Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslass Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 I didn't realise. Thats terrible. Cruelty is cruelty and it shouldn't be allowed. Ali I imagine most curries eaten in the UK are based on halal meat, aren't they? Here in Bradford, certainly, it's the norm - though there's also a huge choice of vegetarian options. I guess there's still a dilemma - even if we eat vegetarian meals, we should be aware that other diners are eating meat which has been ritually slaughtered, so in a sense, we're all supporting the practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathyw Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 I didn't realise. Thats terrible. Cruelty is cruelty and it shouldn't be allowed. Ali No it should not be allowed. Animals suffer in the name of someone's religeon. The laws against cruelty should cover everyone and people made aware before they come here. Either you use humane methods of slaughter or you go elsewhere. It makes me sick to my stomach of how so much is allowed under the guise of religious freedom in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimthecat Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Scotlass, I don't eat curry but I'll make sure that my mates know they're likely to be eating halal meat . Kathy agree with you about cruelty. Not all religeous practices are allowed though, I'm sure female circumcism isn't. All these animal societies and associations we have in this country and they just seem to have accepted it. Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimthecat Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 PS Not sure whether female circumcism is religeous or cultural or both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathyw Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Whlen in Rome etc. If you want to live in this country then you live by it's laws. We do not allow animals to be slaughtered unless they are stunned first - why should we have to accept this disgusting cruelty because others want to live here? It's one thing to seek refuge in a county and quite another to try to turn that country into a version of what you 'fled' from. This type of thing is why many people are against immigration. This country is far too free and easy. Accept the laws of the country you choose to live in or go elsewhere - simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishPastry Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Accept the laws of the country you choose to live in or go elsewhere - simple. they are accepting the law, as the law has told them they are allowed to kill without stunning! Very pants though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslass Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 I'd like to make a couple of points, since I brought up the halal issue. First, Judaism uses the same method of slaughter (Am I right? Kosher slaughter?) and that's been going on for many years in the UK. I do eat meat, and I do go to Pakistani restaurants. Until the law is changed, no Muslim or Jew is breaking the law. I, for one, don't believe that folk should be told to 'get back to where they came from if they dont like it'. Society is never static; we have to cope with change - if we all went back to where we originated, who'd be left? A few folk who thought they shared equal values? Give them five minutes together on this island of ours and they'd be fighting among themselves. 'Twas ever thus. I'm embarrassed to live in a Britain where class divides are the norm, where snobbery is still rife, and strangers are regarded with suspicion if not outright hostility, but where we happily accept that drunkenness, recreational drug-taking and obsession with so-called celebrities is the stuff of normal life. "Western" values don't look that great from where I stand. And that includes Scotland, if anyone's wondering. I'd also like to know where this idea comes from- that English people can't declare their Englishness? What does that mean? Who says they can't say it, if they want to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 In my experience many people who are not English think that anyone who says they are proud to be English is by implication looking down on other nationalities. Many English people also assume that anyone who says it is a right-winger. It's OK for everyone to be rude about the English on the grounds that we go round oppressing everyone else, apparently. For some reason, lots of people also make nasty jibes about the Welsh which if applied to most other nationalities would be considered racist. I'm neither proud nor ashamed to be English, it's just where I got born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslass Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 The Scots get their share of racist jibes, of course, as do the Irish (the latter particularly). I've lost count of the number of people who've mimicked (they think ) my accent over the past few years - a few weeks ago, I was in the garden calling Bonnie in, and the workmen next door thought it hilarious to repeat loudly to each other "Aye, come right in, Bonnie" in what they imagined was a Scots accent. I just thought they were eejits. Maybe there is a difference between being "proud" to be a specific nationalty and just being it? Do people say they're proud to be German? French? Swedish? I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishPastry Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 As a Dane I can tell you that noone should be proud of being Swedish (sorry, bad joke, they are "our wales, scotland, Ireland"... all done in friendly tone and it goes both ways !) I agree that the "they should just go home" comment is off, a lot of these "foreigners" have been born here, there parents and even grandparents might have been born here as well, This is their home! I have lots more to say, but can't word it properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimthecat Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 I'd like to make a couple of points, since I brought up the halal issue. First, Judaism uses the same method of slaughter (Am I right? Kosher slaughter?) and that's been going on for many years in the UK. Yes. I've checked on Google and there are lots of links to info about kosher and halal and ritual slaughter including Defra and Muslim council. Wikkipedia (accuracy isnt guaranteed) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_aspects...itual_slaughter According to this link some countries have banned it , some had banned it but the law was changed and the Uk have never banned it. Attempts have been made to ban it here by animal groups ( I must have missed it at the time and I apologise to them ) but weren't sucessful. This is from the Muslim news http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/paper/index.php?article=1199 The Farm Animal Wefare Council wanted it banned but weren't successful. The Muslim Council don't believe it is cruel. What Defra say about slaughter http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/farmed/slaughter.htm "Killing or slaughter should be conducted without causing “any avoidable excitement, pain or suffering to any animalâ€. Anyone carrying out killing or slaughter, by means other than a free bullet, must ensure that the animal is restrained appropriately and is stunned before slaughter" and "There are long-standing provisions in our law which, subject to specific requirements, permit the slaughter of animals without stunning to meet Jewish and Muslim religious requirements. Whilst the Government would prefer that all animals were stunned before slaughter, it recognises the needs of certain communities and accepts the importance which they attach to the right to slaughter animals for food in accordance with their beliefs" Pathetic! Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 I don't know about halal, but my understanding about kosher was that it's part of the 'rules' that it's supposed to be done as quickly and humanely as possible. I suspect this is all part of the same issue with inhumane factory farming practices that affects all our food: I'm not convinced that big factory slaughterhouses are ever really humane whatever technique they use, and kosher is a system designed for one well trained bloke killing a cow in his village, not some company churning through 2 cows a minute to make an endless stream of beefburgers. I suspect a single, well executed Kosher death would probably be better than your average KFC chicken death. Could be wrong, anyone know different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) I suspect a single, well executed Kosher death would probably be better than your average KFC chicken death. Could be wrong, anyone know different? Possibly not all Kosher & Halal slaughters, but certainly a lot are not as 'instant' as some would have us believe, and I think (if I had to be one) I would prefer to be a KFC chicken than anything slaughtered under Halal / Kosher rules. I understand it isn't unusual for a cow to 'live' for 2 minutes after having it's through cut? I have a link to a video if anyone would like proof. I'm not going to post it here 'cause it is barbaric and I would hate anyone (particularly a youngster) to click it unintentionally. PM me if you would like it. ETA : Links to BBC News articles containing explanations of Halal & Kosher stuff. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2977836.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2977086.stm Edited July 16, 2008 by Kaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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