kola Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 full details can be found at; www.dogownershiptest.co.uk Amanda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGAR Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 I am sorry but I had to laugh at the proposal. Nothing new and will not work as it is impossible to implement. Oh and btw, HOW many people have a driving licence and can't drive properly?? Many... Wouldn't surprise me if that one came from a *behaviourist* or *trainer* to supplement some income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakeysmum Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 I think it will be like most licences, only the fine upstanding citizens bother with tv and car licences and insurance etc, shame as I agree that there has to be a way of making sure dogs go to knowledable and suitable homes. How could we enforce any law, we would have to have police equipped with scanners and as they have just got rid of there duty to collect strays i'm not sure they would be keen to begin partolling parks scanning dogs etc. A start but I don't know how it will help the situation with dog attacks like the ones they list, these dogs were not pets but guard dogs in the main x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cenydd Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Wouldn't surprise me if that one came from a *behaviourist* or *trainer* to supplement some income. I find it very sad that the level of cynicism around here means that people just want to knock down anyone who wants to try and come up with any sort of positive way forward in area of dog legislation, accusing every idea of being born out of self interest and personal gain. There are those out there who want to see things change, and want to put their own time and effort into trying to get something positive done. There are others who just want to bleat and moan about how bad the world is and how mistreated we all are from the sidelines, and knock down anyone who tries to make some effort to actually do something about it by accusing them of having an ulterior motive. Have you considered that maybe they are actually just wanting to get something done, and are prepared to put their time and effort where their mouth is?! All some people seem to say to every idea is 'that will never work' without suggesting anything that they think will actually work. Pure cynical negativity, and it's frankly, IMO, rather pathetic, utterly pointless, and totally counter-productive in terms of actually changing the situation for the better! How about putting forward your own ideas for others to discuss? I have nothing whatsoever to do with this particular scheme and idea. I agree with some of it, and disagree with some of it, and will happily discuss it as part of the consultation process, in order to try and make a positive contribution to improving it. I am personally aware of the source of this, and I can assure you that the idea is not a business scheme, nor does it originate from a "behaviourist" or "trainer". If you can make no useful comment, and just want to question the motives of the people responsible for an idea, and laugh at the positive efforts they are making, then I would suggest you spend some time examining your own motives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cenydd Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 I think it will be like most licences, only the fine upstanding citizens bother with tv and car licences and insurance etc, shame as I agree that there has to be a way of making sure dogs go to knowledable and suitable homes. Absolutely a fair comment. There are, of course, enforcement issues and so on to look at, and I think there is more detail to be added to the idea over the coming weeks, but just because you can't always catch everybody who breaks a law doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. The problem that they are trying to address, I believe, is that the DDA targets the wrong end of the lead. How you target the other end of the lead is a big question though, and I can't see any other basic way of doing it than some system of compulsory licencing/education - to that extent I am in full agreement with this idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brierley Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Similar proposals have been put forward in other countries and have failed mainly because of what we are already seeing here. Those who are more or less in favour say why it should be considered, those who think it unworkable say so and then the debate turns from discussing an idea to hurling insults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddyboy Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Having looked at the information on the website, some parts I think would be a good move, but others possibly not so. Dog laws - are they talking UK laws, or the ones from local government? Questions relating to particular dog breeds - would these be the same question for everyone or modified to the breed the person has/wants (says the owner of a greyhound, a terrier and a boxer/pointer - all with different needs according to experts but who all muck in together with the same food, the same routines etc). Questions relating to responsible management of dogs in relation to society and the environment - excellent. Questions relating to options and resources available to owners who may encounter problems (etc etc) - excellent. Questions relating to canine behaviour - if they are general questions fine but the one shown “A dog displaying an arched back, licking lips with a tail tucked between the legs is most likely to be: A) Showing signs of fear or nervousness. B) Showing signs of playful confidence. C) Showing signs of territorial aggression†would in my household at least need a further 2 options - about to be sick, or in the case of Toastie who has a deformed back - intent on the treat in my hand... so an inexperienced person may get the wrong idea if just words are in the question - need pictures. (Mind you Jed would be option A when he knows he has been naughty) The fee for sitting the test - what sort of level is that likely to be? Also, would everyone in the household have to sit it - bearing in mind it could be different members of the household taking the dog out. How long does an individual's license run? Would there be provision for example if a family member without a license took over the care of a dog for a relative who was taken ill - if they walked the dog without a license in this case would there be repercussions? What would the cost be for Supplier Level Dog Ownership Licences - thinking of the smaller rescues here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cenydd Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 The fee for sitting the test - what sort of level is that likely to be? Without wishing to get heavily involved in answering questions on somebody else's ideas, or giving wrong information out, I believe they have mentioned elsewhere in other discussion forums the approximate figure of £40 for the license. I also believe they are planning a full consultation process, where there will be opportunity to ask such questions and discuss all of the issues in detail, which will all be announced at the website. I hope this info helps - more than that I do not know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSDFan Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 If you can make no useful comment, and just want to question the motives of the people responsible for an idea, and laugh at the positive efforts they are making, then I would suggest you spend some time examining your own motives. You'll find if you care to look into it that Sarah spends rather a lot of time promoting DNB Ireland and the cause of dogs affected by BSL. I think she is more than entitled to express her opinions in any way she chooses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGAR Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 I find it very sad that the level of cynicism around here means that people just want to knock down anyone who wants to try and come up with any sort of positive way forward in area of dog legislation, accusing every idea of being born out of self interest and personal gain. There are those out there who want to see things change, and want to put their own time and effort into trying to get something positive done. As GSDFan kindly said in my defence and I add: if you would put some time into actually participating in the board life here instead of posting platitutes and slogans THAN we talk again. I have been active in anti BSL for nigh enough 20 years and that not just in Ireland. I have nothing whatsoever to do with this particular scheme and idea. I am personally aware of the source of this, and I can assure you that the idea is not a business scheme, nor does it originate from a "behaviourist" or "trainer". Care to enlighten me then? I just did a WHOIS on the website and it is a reg'd to a dog trainer... Well well, wonders never cease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSDFan Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Care to enlighten me then? I just did a WHOIS on the website and it is a reg'd to a dog trainer... Well well, wonders never cease. Ah, funnily enough I didn't think of doing that. I have now though. I would hope that this isn't being done for personal or business gain, although the fact that the gentleman is a behavioural assessor and the owner of a canine publication does rather make one wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGAR Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Without wishing to get heavily involved in answering questions on somebody else's ideas, or giving wrong information out, I believe they have mentioned elsewhere in other discussion forums the approximate figure of £40 for the license. I also believe they are planning a full consultation process, where there will be opportunity to ask such questions and discuss all of the issues in detail, which will all be announced at the website. I hope this info helps - more than that I do not know! THEY have mentioned, THEY believe etc??? Your own blog/website in your profile states: Would it be expensive?There will of course be a cost implication, but it is not intended that this should in any way be prohibitively high. The sort of costs involved should be something like this 9these are just ball-park estimates for illustration: A book giving course material: £10 A set of 5 instructional seminars: £5 each Final test/registration fee: £25 Total: £60 This would be a one-off fee, not annually renewable, spread over a couple of months. For a higher license or breeder license, this would be followed by another similar course/test/charges. And funnily enough the whole thing is called: http://dogownerlicense.blogspot.com/ They believe...they have mentioned... Is there something you are not telling us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyM Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Will the licences be breed specific? I'm assuming so if this is cenyd masked under another name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cenydd Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 They believe...they have mentioned... Is there something you are not telling us? And I also force cars into Paris tunnel walls, shoot people from grassy knolls and doctor pictures of non-existant moon landings! I have no connection or relationship (business or otherwise) with the originator of this idea (indeed, I have never met him or spoken to him), have had no involvement in the developement of this idea or the information about his idea, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with my former (now ended) petition. We have both come up with similar (licensing and owner education to target the other end of the lead) solutions to the same basic problem, at around the same time, and became aware of each others' ideas as I began to discuss my petition on a forum which he runs. I have discussed issues around such ideas and concepts, and other issues (dog and non-dog related) with him on that forum, but that is the only involvement we have ever had (and our ideas and opinions are significantly different in many areas of our respective schemes). Perhaps my statement about his dog training was misleading, for which i apologise - what I should have said was that dog training is not, as I understand it, currently his main business or his focus. I can catagorically state that I personally have no business interests in dog training, or in fact any business interests at all (being a salaried minion in the public sector!), nor am I ever likely to go into business (I don't have the instinct for it!). I agree with the general concept of his idea, similar is it is to my own, but disagree with some of the detail. Now that my petition has ended, my work on that is done - it was intended to stimulate debate and raise awareness of the issues, and I am generally happy that it did so quite successfully in some areas. I am happy to continue to debate similar or other ideas, such as this one, but that is as far as my involvement goes - I am not planning to become active in this particular campaign (although I wish it success - although I disagree with parts of it, it is so much better than the BSL which it seeks to replace). Conspiracy theories and paranoia are no more productive than general scorn and suspicion. We are all supposed to be on the same side here. Fighting and helping individual cases, and campaigning against BSL is extremely worthy, and I do not in any way seek to belittle the efforts of those involved, but there is still the bigger picture. If there is nothing to replace BSL, then BSL will stay, and develop further, being applied to more and more breeds. Yes, the battles are important, but there also has to be a strategy to actually win the war and remove BSL altogether! Why be so cynical towards ideas and people that attempt to address the problem of BSL by finding a practical replacement? Why accuse them of doing it out of self-interest, or being involved in some kind of secretive plot? You may not disagree with their solutions, either the concepts or the details, but that doesn't mean they aren't genuine attempts to address the problem. The reason I have been participating in other boards more than this one is quite simple. I have a limited amount of time on my hands, and have been spending as much as I can over the last year raising awareness of my ideas and petition in order to encourage active and positive discussion of the issues involved. In some other places the discussions have been less negative and cynical, and not led by accusations of self-interest and innuendo about secret plots to actually increase BSL, and people (whether they have been agreeing with me or not) have been much more constructive in their comments and criticisms, so the debate has been much more useful. In general, this board is one of those where I tend to read more than I contribute, and I find it very informative and interesting in many ways. However, I did not find it always as constructive as some others I am on when it came to discussing the issue I was most interested in, so I have spent less time here. Short of actually giving out my credit card number, etc., I have never hidden any details about myself, pretended to be anything I am not, or attempted to mislead anyone about my own interests, opinions or motives. I am who I am (and I am usually signed up in places by my own name, as I am here, so I'm pretty easy to find!). I am involved in no secret plots, conspiracies or dodgy business schemes, and will gain nothing from the replacement or otherwise of BSL, other than the pleasure of seeing such appauling legislation consigned to the dustbin of history (and perhaps the personal satisfaction of feeling that I have contributed to the debate in some small way). Will the licences be breed specific? I'm assuming so if this is cenyd masked under another name? For information, I understand that they will not be breed specific. See above regardng me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGAR Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Conspiracy theories and paranoia are no more productive than general scorn and suspicion. I am getting kind of sick now of your patronising manner. Let me just say this: it is rarely the licensed drivers that cause real havoc but rather the joy riders. Same applies for the idea the thread was opened for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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