Dogs Today -banned From Crufts

[Helly]

can someone explain it to me in simple terms ( being a bit dim re breeding and buying )

 

 

Thanks

you breed any old kc registered dogs, you pay kc some money, agree with them that checks should be done and that you make every effort to breed healthy dogs and they give you an accredited breeder label.

 

then jo blogs wants a well bred puppy and assumes kc only list good breeders and they tell him where their nearest breeder is on their list so he hands them his money for a puppy that could be crap but he will never know the difference coz he trusted kc to look after him

[Katiebob]

Ok, a few facts:

 

Beverley Cuddy said she had no idea why her photographer wouldn't be welcome.

 

She later advises that JWB and Royal Canin have withdrawn their advertising because of supplemnt she published.

 

Obviously Beverley is to be trusted then. Fine.

 

The KC aren't perfect. They have their own version of events. So maybe it's tit for tat.

 

As regards health issues in certain breeds, maybe you'd like to research these health issues before you discuss them for all breeds? Some are definitely critical for the survival of the breed, some aren't. Maybe we shoud put them on a sliding scale? I don't know but I do know that this general attack of the Kennel Club isn't healthy - you need to influence to change, not attack.

[nouggatti]

Ok, a few facts:

 

Beverley Cuddy said she had no idea why her photographer wouldn't be welcome.

 

She later advises that JWB and Royal Canin have withdrawn their advertising because of supplemnt she published.

 

Obviously Beverley is to be trusted then. Fine.

 

The KC aren't perfect. They have their own version of events. So maybe it's tit for tat.

 

As regards health issues in certain breeds, maybe you'd like to research these health issues before you discuss them for all breeds? Some are definitely critical for the survival of the breed, some aren't. Maybe we shoud put them on a sliding scale? I don't know but I do know that this general attack of the Kennel Club isn't healthy - you need to influence to change, not attack.

 

Yes I'm not impressed with the manner in which the entire campaign has been carried out, it's not exactly going to influence people by slagging them off on a blog.

 

Whilst it would be great to have the KC only accredit breeders who breed for the sake of the breed, for perfect health etc, this way of going about it imo is not the most productive.

[Maria]

Yes I'm not impressed with the manner in which the entire campaign has been carried out, it's not exactly going to influence people by slagging them off on a blog.

 

Whilst it would be great to have the KC only accredit breeders who breed for the sake of the breed, for perfect health etc, this way of going about it imo is not the most productive.

 

I am impressed that someone will say, vehemently and publically that the scheme is worse than useless.

There are 'ethical' breeders who won't go down the accredited route, as they don't agree with the way it's run, and others who choose not to 'advertise' their litters on the KC site. As a result, Jo public gets duped into thinking that the accredited breeder (whose ads appear at the top of the listings because that's what they've paid for) breeds for health, when actually, they may not.

I know of breeders who have tried to get the KC changed from within, and it's not interested. So I applaud someone who is willing to go public, and tell the average potential dog owner that this scheme is not what it appears to be, and what to look for instead.

[Rudi]

The scheme has requirements and recommendations http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/474

 

I believe that breeders must adhere to the requirements in order to be classified as an accredited breeder BUT and it's a big but, there don't appear to be any guidelines as to how the results of the tests are used.

 

So you can meet the requirements by having the genetic tests done but if your dog is suffers from a condition or disease, is a carrier of it or has an enormous hip score - there's still nothing to stop the puppies being registered with the KC and being sold under the banner of the accredited breeders scheme.

 

This p*sses some breeders off as not all are reckless with the health of the dogs they breed. The scheme completely disregards any tests for temperament as well.

[barb]

I totaly agree Maria. It seems to me that Beverly is only concerned with the health and welfare of all puppies. She stands by what she says and has been trying for a long time to get her feelings over. The KC does some good things but can be very stiff necked about breeding health dogs and thinks it can never be wrong.

 

Barbara

[nouggatti]

The scheme has requirements and recommendations http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/474

 

I believe that breeders must adhere to the requirements in order to be classified as an accredited breeder BUT and it's a big but, there don't appear to be any guidelines as to how the results of the tests are used.

 

So you can meet the requirements by having the genetic tests done but if your dog is suffers from a condition or disease, is a carrier of it or has an enormous hip score - there's still nothing to stop the puppies being registered with the KC and being sold under the banner of the accredited breeders scheme.

 

This p*sses some breeders off as not all are reckless with the health of the dogs they breed. The scheme completely disregards any tests for temperament as well.

 

Imo the only way to go if you are looking for a pure bred puppy is via a breed club at the moment.

 

 

You have got a very valid point Maria if the KC is not open to change via any channel then education regarding what it is to be a KC accredited breeder is valuable.

 

Apologies if my earlier post trying to explain caused confusion, that was my understanding at the time, I stand corrected by Rudi!

 

I believed that one did not have to test, not that one did not have to follow guidelines inresults in relation to parents/puppies.

[Rudi]

Apologies if my earlier post trying to explain caused confusion, that was my understanding at the time, I stand corrected by Rudi!

 

I believed that one did not have to test, not that one did not have to follow guidelines inresults in relation to parents/puppies.

 

Wasn't trying to correct you think I was busy typing my reply when you posted yours that's only how I understand the scheme, I'm probably wrong

[Happylittlegreensquirrel]

thanks for the explanations , I have more questions

 

 

does the KC scheme cover the minimum age that a bitch has her first litter or how many litters she has in her lifespan and a maximum age she can have a litter

[kats n greys]

I'm at the GSD, to me it looked so wrong, deformed.

 

 

Sorry to be quoting myself, but if this dog is the " creme de la creme" of it's breed then I'm and at the accepted standards.

[Maria]

thanks for the explanations , I have more questions

 

 

does the KC scheme cover the minimum age that a bitch has her first litter or how many litters she has in her lifespan and a maximum age she can have a litter

 

I 'think' they can't be under a year, or over 8, and a maximum of 6 litters can be registered. Hhmm, Smudge who was puppy farmed would meet those criteria.

 

 

Sorry to be quoting myself, but if this dog is the " creme de la creme" of it's breed then I'm and at the accepted standards.

 

I agree One reason why I won't attend Crufts as this is what your entrance fee supports.

[Rudi]

thanks for the explanations , I have more questions

 

 

does the KC scheme cover the minimum age that a bitch has her first litter or how many litters she has in her lifespan and a maximum age she can have a litter

 

The ABS itself doesn't lay down any rules but Kennel Club's general guidelines for all breeders, whether accredited or not fit with those laid down in law - one year old to breed/six litters maximum/8 years of age to stop breeding. It's a shame they don't go further, as it horrifies me that people would breed from what is really still a puppy and in a large breed 8 years is too old. Many breed clubs have their own ethical guidelines and make their own stipulations.

[GSDFan]

thanks for the explanations , I have more questions

 

 

does the KC scheme cover the minimum age that a bitch has her first litter or how many litters she has in her lifespan and a maximum age she can have a litter

 

The KC won't register litters born to a bitch after a certain age ( 8 y.o. I think but I haven't checked ) and won't register more than 6 litters from the same bitch.

 

Of course this doesn't mean that a breeder can't breed outside these guidelines, but it does mean the pups cannot be sold as KC registered

 

Sorry to be quoting myself, but if this dog is the " creme de la creme" of it's breed then I'm and at the accepted standards.

 

I think he is a fabulous dog, but take heart, the die hards at the Kennel Club will positively hate him. They prefer the old English type that can't move and certainly couldn't work.

 

To get slightly back on topic

 

I can't see how Beverley Cuddy can expect the KC to behave nicely towards her and her magazine when she behaves in the way she does.

 

I used to buy DT occasionally, Beverley Cuddy has always irritated me, I'll not bother buying her rather crappy publication at all in future.

[Gemstone]

Sorry to be quoting myself, but if this dog is the " creme de la creme" of it's breed then I'm and at the accepted standards.

 

 

A friend of mine explained that this German Shepherd is actually a good example of how the breed was meant to be shaped originally and that it is through overbreeding that most German Shepherds that we see today are not this correct shape

[Mrs Mop]

Ok, a few facts:

 

Beverley Cuddy said she had no idea why her photographer wouldn't be welcome.

 

She later advises that JWB and Royal Canin have withdrawn their advertising because of supplemnt she published.

 

Obviously Beverley is to be trusted then. Fine.

 

The KC aren't perfect. They have their own version of events. So maybe it's tit for tat.

 

I think you are misreading what is said, in the first blog about the photographer she has put:

 

"I was set to go up tomorrow and do day 1, so just phoned the press office to check something about parking, and have been told that I wouldn’t be allowed in as press on behalf of Dogs Today due to events last year. I wasn’t even aware of any issues last year."

 

She asked for a statement about this and received:

 

We never got one, but we did receive this email!

 

"I’m afraid we are not going to be able to provide you with a comment. We believe that Beverley knows why we would not wish to register Dogs Today at Crufts and so do not feel we need to re-iterate this.

Best Wishes

Kat Watts

Crufts Press Office"

 

As far as James Wellbeloved and Royal Canin are concerned, according to the blog she checked it with their PR departments before she published it.

 

We received not a murmur of negativity and lots of praise from all quarters - until I got a very thick envelope from the MD of James Wellbeloved and Royal Canin. They had been the sponsors of the supplement and we had sent each page to their PR people for checking before we went to press and they had absolutely loved it. It was hence quite a shock to receive an incredibly negative and hostile letter from the boss!

 

We only have her word for this at the moment, but I don't think she is stupid enough to put this into print unless she is sure of her facts or they could sue her.