Man Who Donated Sperm To Lesbian Couple

[Ian]

Ian - what about all those children during the world wars when fathers were absent for many years? Did they suffer from the lack of a male role model? Or children whose fathers work away from home? Genuine question - I believe there's been research on that too.

 

Fortunately for me I wasn't born then so could only speculate on that. Generally however I do believe that children benefit from a good male and female role model. In war situations it's perhaps different but I certainly wouldn't have children and then go and work away from them by choice myself even if that meant a lesserstandard of living. I think the fathers doing so miss out as well as the child.

[akitas]

Fortunately for me I wasn't born then so could only speculate on that. Generally however I do believe that children benefit from a good male and female role model. In war situations it's perhaps different but I certainly wouldn't have children and then go and work away from them by choice myself even if that meant a lesserstandard of living. I think the fathers doing so miss out as well as the child.

 

In an ideal world that is all wonderful, but when it comes to paying bills, surviving, you might consider your todays point of view.

Strange enough when it comes to separation in a relationship, money seems to be much more important to some partners then the children they have helped to bring into this world.

 

And it is not only war or working away that can take one parent.

My father died when I was 3 years old. Now you know why I am so screwed up

[tigga]

Why the third woman should be able to evade responsibility when deciding to "have" a child via an unnatural process I fail to see but perhaps what will be my most controversial thought these days is that whilst I have no problems with homosexuals or lesbians making their own choices in their own homes I don't believe that any child should be brought up in that environment, thereby encouraged to believe that it's the norm & then likely besubjected to being made the subject of "fun" / bullying as they grow up & go to school because of it - kids can be very cruel.

 

I am angry at this

 

I am a lesbian me and my partner would like to have a baby together by using a sperm donor and the turkey baster method,we have had 1 try it didnt work and are now on the hunt for a new donor which is hard and is going to be harder now due to this story

My partner has 2 children of 11 and 14 they are well adjusted girls and maybe they are very lucky but havent been picked on due to our relationship they arent any different than 2 children from a straight relationship.

We also have friends who have had a baby together she is a lovely happy little girl and has the love of all her family and her 2 mums she is only 2 so i suppose time will tell what school friends will say etc.

 

Anyway think im blabbering now

 

Seems a lots been written since i was posting apologies

Edited December 5, 2007 by tigga

[snow]

Good evening everyone

 

Seems like this threads got a wee bit of heat to it since I last took a look ...

 

The post above me is a clasic example of why it pays not to generalise or stereo type - theres usually someone around who'll fit into the mould.

 

Let's keep this civil and on topic if you wouldn't mind.

 

This message has been brought to you by your friendly neighbourhood admin type person .... the next message if it's needed will be brought to you by a rather less friendly version of the same person

[scotslass]

It's always safe to assume that there will be people of every social/political/religious group - or sexual orientation - on any forum. That doesn't mean we shouldn't feel free to speak, of course, as long as we refrain from insulting others. Also, if we don't discuss things with others of opposing views, we'll never learn anything. I'd like to hear from lesbian parents as to their view of this case. Do they think it right that the other woman has scuttled off in the way irresponsible fathers have traditionally done? I wouldn't think so. It's the same issue of abandonment and irresponsibility, whether it's female or male, gay or straight.

 

I couldn't care less about a parent's sexual orientation - to me, what's important is that a child's parents, whoever and whatever they are, bear the responsibility for their welfare.

 

Some of us seem to be saying that when two women have a family (which must, by definition, involve a man's donation to create) they don't represent a real family - in the sense that a male/female partnership works, with assumed responsibilities and obligations - and if I were part of a lesbian family, I'd find that pretty insulting.

[Melp]

I certainly wouldn't have children and then go and work away from them by choice myself even if that meant a lesserstandard of living. I think the fathers doing so miss out as well as the child.

 

I have two children and a husband who works away. He doesn't do so by choice, he does it by necessity. Our standard of living is not high, it's probably pretty average. Do my kids suffer because their Dad isn't here during the week? I don't think so. They miss him obviously and he them but the time they do spend together is quality time.

I would hope that I'm enough of a parent to make up for the fact that he's not here much. If he were dead or left me I'd have to cope and many many women [and men] are fantastic single parents, sometimes better for the kids than they were as part of a couple.

 

Some of us seem to be saying that when two women have a family (which must, by definition, involve a man's donation to create) they don't represent a real family - in the sense that a male/female partnership works, with assumed responsibilities and obligations - and if I were part of a lesbian family, I'd find that pretty insulting.

 

This is what's getting to me, the assumption that two same sex paents can't be a real family, or are abnormal/unnatural. Of course it's true that same sex couple can't physically create a child together but does that take away their maternal/paternal feelings? Of course not. Nor does it take away their ability to nurture a child or to be a fantastic parent.

[scotslass]

I would hope that I'm enough of a parent to make up for the fact that he's not here much. If he were dead or left me I'd have to cope and many many women [and men] are fantastic single parents, sometimes better for the kids than they were as part of a couple.

 

I agree. I'm sure your kids know their dad is doing what he has to do to be the best dad he can be for his children. it's a very recent concept that fathers should be involved in their children's day-to-day lives anyway (sorry guys) and most children thrived nonetheless. Incidentally, I know at least one young stay-at-home dad (he works from home when his wee son allows ) who's the most loving, caring, involved parent any baby could have. The mum goes out to work because she earns more and their baby is cherished.

 

This is what's getting to me, the assumption that two same sex paents can't be a real family, or are abnormal/unnatural. Of course it's true that same sex couple can't physically create a child together but does that take away their maternal/paternal feelings? Of course not. Nor does it take away their ability to nurture a child or to be a fantastic parent.

 

Anyone can be a loving parent. You don't need a specific lifestyle, gender, skin colour, political view, or religion. I agree.

 

Sorry - mucked up quotes....

[Ian]

In an ideal world that is all wonderful, but when it comes to paying bills, surviving, you might consider your todays point of view.

Strange enough when it comes to separation in a relationship, money seems to be much more important to some partners then the children they have helped to bring into this world.

 

And it is not only war or working away that can take one parent.

My father died when I was 3 years old. Now you know why I am so screwed up

 

 

Is there an implicit assumption in your first line that I must be speaking from ignorance / have been fortunate enough to have lived the idealic childhood with two parents constantly present & happily married?

 

I didn't & one of my parents had a far harder up bringing than I did in that sense

 

In your second paragraph, sadly, as far as I can see we agree with each other

 

I really couldn't comment on your last one, never having met or even spoken to you

[Ian]

I have two children and a husband who works away. He doesn't do so by choice, he does it by necessity. Our standard of living is not high, it's probably pretty average. Do my kids suffer because their Dad isn't here during the week? I don't think so. They miss him obviously and he them but the time they do spend together is quality time.

I would hope that I'm enough of a parent to make up for the fact that he's not here much. If he were dead or left me I'd have to cope and many many women [and men] are fantastic single parents, sometimes better for the kids than they were as part of a couple.

This is what's getting to me, the assumption that two same sex paents can't be a real family, or are abnormal/unnatural. Of course it's true that same sex couple can't physically create a child together but does that take away their maternal/paternal feelings? Of course not. Nor does it take away their ability to nurture a child or to be a fantastic parent.

 

 

To be fair though Melp I was talking about what I would choose, that's not to say that I expect everyone to agree with me. Also I was not talking about someone who was away a few days and home the w/e nor who has only recently begun doing so (though to be honest with you I still might not choose that path myself) but of fathers who are away for months on end, home for a few short weeks and continue this path most of the childs life. I do know of someone who was away from home for more of their childs life than they were present.

 

I also gree that there are some fantastic single parents who do everything they can for their child. I won't argue the semantics of "norm" & the different connotations we appear to attach to that remark unlessyou particularly want me to expand upon that but were we perhaps differ is that I would argue there are some things a mum / dad / son / daughter are more comfortable / ableto discuss and advise a child upon than others. I believe that it's in the best interests of the child where possible for parents to be offering both roles & there as much as possible.

 

For me it's about what I believe is best for the child not about a prejudice or the parents desires.

 

Some will agree, some wont, but that's life.

[akitas]

Is there an implicit assumption in your first line that I must be speaking from ignorance / have been fortunate enough to have lived the idealic childhood with two parents constantly present & happily married?

 

I didn't & one of my parents had a far harder up bringing than I did in that sense

 

In your second paragraph, sadly, as far as I can see we agree with each other

 

I really couldn't comment on your last one, never having met or even spoken to you

 

 

I meant that in an ideal world we would all do what is best for us and our children, but it doesn't always work that way.

I never planned to get divorced. Never planned to be a single mother and never expected my (ex)husband not to care about our children anymore.

 

I think we have all these ideals when we start a relationship, but unfortunately sometimes reality catches up with us in form from unemployment, psychological problems, health etc....

 

Lucky you having grown up with both parents. From my own experience kids are very adaptable to new situation, very much like dog (Just kidding)

[BillyMalc]

Why the third woman should be able to evade responsibility when deciding to "have" a child via an unnatural process I fail to see but perhaps what will be my most controversial thought these days is that whilst I have no problems with homosexuals or lesbians making their own choices in their own homes I don't believe that any child should be brought up in that environment, thereby encouraged to believe that it's the norm & then likely besubjected to being made the subject of "fun" / bullying as they grow up & go to school because of it - kids can be very cruel.

 

Who is to decide what's "the norm"? The only "norm" that every child should know should be that of a loving, accepting, respectful, encouraging environment. Differences, such as having parents of the same gender, or a different skin colour for that matter, often only become an issue when kids have learned of the adults in their environment that something isn't acceptable and/or a subject of ridicule. Unfortunately, in this day and age there are still far too many adults who are narrow-minded, and in my humble opinion it is they who are a greater threat to a "different" child's feelings of acceptance and appreciation than the "cruel kids" in the playground.

 

I was brought up in a white, middle class, heterosexual environment. My parents gave me a thoroughly Dutch name, which unfortunately also rhymes with a number of slang words. I was teased at school, not because of my family background, but because I didn't have a big enough mouth to fight back with (changed that alright!). It was my parents who taught me that homosexuality was "dirty" and "unnatural" and it was de rest of my - adult - family who ridiculed me for going veggie/vegan

And all of this is beside the fact that my dad lived and died a depressed, bitter man, who caused most of the grief and upset in my childhood. Now let's see, a dad like that - and a mum who's a darling btw - or 2 mums who'd both have been happier? I know what I'd have chosen, if I'd been given the option.

[boosboss]

Whilst echoing Billymalcs post, just wanted to add that positive role models can and do come from outside of the immediate family. My 17 year old nephews dad died when he (my nephew) was 7 years old, his male role models now come in the form of 9 uncles (5 and 4 from each parent), 1 uncle by marraige, 1 grandad and a multitude of close family friends. I grew up in a large family and many would consider us not 'the norm'. Even now we see each other as regularly as monthly and all get on very well (see 'not the norm'). Also the norm of my parents generation is certainly not the norm of mine. Living with yesteryears morals has virtually no place in todays society, but then who decides which generation has the monopoly on morals.*

One example I can give of a same sex couple raising a child, are a lesbian couple who adopted a little girl from a desparate family in Guatemala. Thier daughter is now a happy, heathy, fun loving, heterosexual (sometimes too much), sixteen year old British teenager. Probably no absolutely a far cry from the life she would've know had she been left with her biological parents (who, btw she still has contact with).

If the parents have the childs best interests as a priorty, then in my opinion that's what counts. All children have to deal with issues in one form or another, it's how you as the parent(s) handle them that matters.

 

 

*(for morals you can read social opinions if you like )

[Godin]

I'm extremely alarmed that the CSA was allowed to deduct money from Andy Bathie's bank account before paternity had been established.

 

My brother has been having money deducted for about a year for a child that he doesn't see, that has at least a 50% chance of not being his, that the mother disapeared with and has refused paternity testing on, my brother has absolutely no rights at all because the mother is his ex wife and put him as father on the birth cert as they were still married although separated at the time of the birth! even though they separated and then divorced because of her adultry

 

As for the original topic I'm not passing comment I haven't heard or read the articles, but I'd like to add that I'm so sorry you have been offended Tigga

[BillyMalc]

Boosboss, does your family not want to adopt us? We promise we'll be good!

Billy, Malcolm and Kiera

[boosboss]

Boosboss, does your family not want to adopt us? We promise we'll be good!

Billy, Malcolm and Kiera

 

Sorry Billy, imagine Same Difference from The X Factor, multiply it by about 10, then ask the question again