Would You Suspect Foul Play?

[Alison]

If the following hypothetical sequence of events occurred, what would you think or do?

 

A 65 year old woman married to a man who became clinically depressed a few years into that marriage and became abusive towards her, including frequent rape.

 

Husband developed diabetes and became physically disabled over a period of time resulting in him being wheelchair-bound, although he was still essentially fit and healthy.

 

After 42 years of marriage, the last 27 being utterly wretched, she begins an affair with a wealthy man many years her senior, estranged from his wife for some 7 years though not divorced

 

1 month after the onset of the affair, her hubby has a fall, the first he's ever had, and ends up in hospital. No bones broken, expected to be back home within a few days (after all the necessary x-rays etc.) according to the medics.

 

She visits him every day in hospital, insisting on feeding him and administering his medication during her visits as the nurses frequently leave his food/meds out of his reach. The lady's circumstances allow her unrestricted access to prescription drugs.

 

His health then deteriorates daily to the point where it is considered that he is too ill to ever consider returning home.

 

His wife puts him into a nursing home. Prior to his admission to hospital, her husband had begun to ask awkard questions and had become suspicious about her frequent absences from home.

 

Despite the fact that she has a very busy and demanding career (and despite the fact that he apparently doesn't recognise her anyway) she finds time to visit him there every day, a devoted and loving wife to this abusive man, so devoted in fact that she insists on preparing all his meals personally at home and feeding him herself. This is a somewhat upmarket and expensive private nursing home where she could be quite sure that the staff would attend to this, and every other aspect of his care assiduously.

 

Within weeks he has developed Alzheimer's Disease to a very serious degree and no longer recognises anyone, yet she continues to visit him every day anyway. He also rapidly develops serious renal and cardiac problems which his doctors are at a loss to explain.

 

When she goes on holiday her lover goes to visit and feed the man he is cuckolding with food that she has herself prepared beforehand.

 

She persuades her elderly lover to begin divorce proceedings - at his age and considering the length of the estrangment he had previously seen no point, actually wanting to remain married so that his estranged wife would be able to claim his pension upon his death.

 

A friend of both the lovers in question receives an occasional e-mail sent by the lady in error (e-mails intended for her lover) and is alarmed by some of the content. The friend is in no way paranoid or fanciful but has reason to believe that Alzheimer's/renal/cardiac problems hubby would not live to see Christmas. Voiced this prediction to several people.

 

Hubby died in the nursing home 2 weeks ago.

 

The friend felt so strongly that foul play may have been involved that he/she wrote to the County Coroner expressing the feeling that a post mortem should be performed but received no response.

 

Hubby cremated, sans post mortem and no chance of one now.

 

The friend asked the lover how his mistress was coping with the loss of her husband:

"She's not sleeping".

"Why? He was hardly ever a good husband to her. I'd have imagined it'd be a relief to her and now that leaves you both free to conduct your relationship publicly and without the risk of opprobrium".

"Well I suppose she has things on her conscience".

 

The friend continues to be haunted, really becoming quite agitated and anxious about it all, but is there anything else he or she can do at this point?

 

If any of this really happened of course.

[incapuppy]

Goodness me, I would have thought that if the chap had been cremated without a post mortem then there is very little that the friend could now do (in this hypothetical situation)

[Helly]

isnt years of abuse and frequent rape enough of a sentence for anyone. sorry but if i knew a friend had gone through that and they found a way to bump the old bugger off and not get caught i would say nothing at all. but then i have no morals.

[BillyMalc]

isnt years of abuse and frequent rape enough of a sentence for anyone. sorry but i knew a friend had gone through that and they found a way to bump the old bugger off and not get caught i would say nothing at all. but then i have no morals.

 

Sums up my thoughts exactly. That's two of us without morals then

[ailsas mum]

If she did it because of the way he treated her then I have no problem with it, good on her. If it was done so she could eventually marry her lover I would be a bit more concerned, and if I was a friend of the lover I would be checking up on his health regularly (not that I think she would do it again) but just in case .

 

Terri

[wickychoo]

isnt years of abuse and frequent rape enough of a sentence for anyone. sorry but if i knew a friend had gone through that and they found a way to bump the old bugger off and not get caught i would say nothing at all. but then i have no morals.

 

ditto.

[Kats inc]

isnt years of abuse and frequent rape enough of a sentence for anyone. sorry but if i knew a friend had gone through that and they found a way to bump the old bugger off and not get caught i would say nothing at all. but then i have no morals.

 

Agree with this sentiment too.Having been a victim of domestic abuse you know often the only way you will ever truly be free is with the death of your abuser.

[purrble]

Agree with this sentiment too.Having been a victim of domestic abuse you know often the only way you will ever truly be free is with the death of your abuser.

 

Yes, i agree with this as even when you manage to escape you are never free.

I spent years looking over my shoulder and going to court and getting an injunction was usless. It never realy stops them hassling you. I think abusers see you as their "property" and never realy let you go.

[snow]

If you are thinking there was foul play once the "abuser" was no longer a threat i.e. in the nursing home and the "victim" was no longer at risk then there's virtually no chance at all of them being able to claim mitigation and win - it's one thing to act in the heat of the moment (bonafide defense) and quite another to plan and act over a period of time when there was no "imminent" threat (would need to try and prove battered woman syndrome which is very difficult) but even using the battered woman defense would be unlikely to stand up in a court once the abuser was no longer able to "threaten" the victim. Moreover as someone that has worked with hundreds of abused victims even I would never support some one trying the battered woman syndrom route to justify causing harm under the circumstances outlined in the OP - that defense is something victims have fought hard for and it should never be used to justify a premeditated murder where there is no longer any viable threat to the victim - thats an overt intentional act and not self defense.

 

As for there being no body - if this were a real situation as outlined then it can still be reported, investigated and even tried without one.

 

Having said that and being the naturally suspicious type *grins* I'm wondering if there's any further information or bits of detail that have been left out of the OP that would place a very different light on the scenario.

[Alison]

Having said that and being the naturally suspicious type *grins* I'm wondering if there's any further information or bits of detail that have been left out of the OP that would place a very different light on the scenario.

The friend has known the lady for 12 years and there was never any suggestion of spousal abuse either during that time or since, other than to her lover (who then confided this to the friend as grounds for justifying the affair).

 

The friend has reason to believe that marriage to the lover is on the lady's mind and has been from the outset.

 

The lady began to press to be named as executor of her lover's will and to be granted power of attorney some 9 months after the affair started.

 

Her lover's adult children became aware of the affair a while ago and approved as it made their father happy but were not told that the lady was married. They demurred when their father discussed his lover becoming executor of his will and having power of attorney.

Edited September 16, 2007 by Alison

[Ian]

isnt years of abuse and frequent rape enough of a sentence for anyone. sorry but if i knew a friend had gone through that and they found a way to bump the old bugger off and not get caught i would say nothing at all. but then i have no morals.

 

 

Sorry I realise this may not be as hypothetical as is suggested & I really shouldn't but I couldn't help but at this one.

 

Maybe I've no morals either

[Ian]

To answer the original question however I'd imagine that unless he had acess to more than what is revealed above then the coroner took no action because there is little more than hearsay provided to support this story.

 

If that's all there is I doubt that anyone else will take an interest unless something fruther comes to light.

 

Perhaps however, the content of this emails are more relevant / informative? If so I would have thought they should be forwarded to the Police along with any information provided to the coroner previously for proper investigation.

 

I think in a heat of the moment / panic / fight or flight / life or death situation someone might be forgiven for an act of self defence / "manslaughter" but I don't think I could support murder - which is basically what you've implied - whatever the past allegations - and especially as there appears to have been no allegations / evidence of any such abuse until this story began.

[Trallwm farm]

Some times I wonder which site Im on.

 

Does this rescue have a name

[owl]

Even if the county coroner did not see enough evidence to proceed, that letter should have received a reply. I am thinking it may not have reached its destination.

 

I haven't posted before because I have been thinking about it during the morning, and there are some things which don't make a lot of sense. If the lover is wealthy, there is no reason why he could not have provided finance for the lady to move out and make a new life for herself. If the husband was confined to a wheelchair, his opportunities for harassment would have been limited. If she has a career, presumably she can support herself anyway?

 

It is true what Jules said, that you never feel free from an abuser until that person is dead. I suspect that if you kill the person yourself you never really get free from them. But there seems to be little evidence that the husband did abuse her. It's also worth considering that most women who have been through 27 years of misery and abuse would not be in haste to marry again and would prefer to have their own space.

 

I am afraid that there are sometimes - very rarely I think - instances of false accusations of domestic violence. These do the real sufferers no favours at all. I did know one man who was banned from seeing his wife or children - until her claims of attending A & E for treatment and making complaints to police had been looked into and it was found that she had done no such thing. The real story behind it was that the couple had quarrelled because the woman was obsessed with babies and wanted a fourth. The man had refused on grounds that he could not support more than 3, and would not consider more anyway while the 3 they had were still so young. He wanted a vasectomy, but wife said if he did that she would allege violence. He went ahead. So did she.

 

Anyway, back to these people. Questions to think about: what were the husband's finances? How much would have gone on nursing home fees if he had stayed there and lived for a few more years? How much does this lady inherit?

 

You say that her work allows her access to prescription drugs. This is worrying from the point of view of others. She is now after power of attorney even before she has married this man. This STINKS.

 

If I were in the position of the mutual friend, I would as a first step go in person to the coroner's office and ask why no reply had been received to the letter. Ask for an appointment with the coroner and take the emails. If no joy, got to the police and ask to speak to a CID officer. The desk officer will want to know why as it is his/her job to weed out timewasters, but all the friend has to say is that there is a concern and some possible evidence (the emails) that a very serious crime may have been committed. Don't be put off by uniform saying they will handle it, hold out for CID.

 

I don't think the mutual friend is going to have a minute's peace over this one so should act asap. As a matter of interest, how did the lady in question meet her lover?

[Alison]

If she did it because of the way he treated her then I have no problem with it, good on her. If it was done so she could eventually marry her lover I would be a bit more concerned, and if I was a friend of the lover I would be checking up on his health regularly (not that I think she would do it again) but just in case .

The friend's only concern would be for the lover. Hubby's toast now and even if his widow were tried and convicted (unlikely - see reply to Owl's post below) it wouldn't bring him back. The friend will be regularly checking on the lover's health and did so with now deceased husband once his/her suspicions were aroused, but to no avail. It seems that only relatives can express fears or attempt to intervene in healthcare as far as the medical profession is concerned. Daft really in these days of Munchausens By Proxy etc.

 

To answer the original question however I'd imagine that unless he had acess to more than what is revealed above then the coroner took no action because there is little more than hearsay provided to support this story.

 

If that's all there is I doubt that anyone else will take an interest unless something fruther comes to light.

 

Perhaps however, the content of this emails are more relevant / informative? If so I would have thought they should be forwarded to the Police along with any information provided to the coroner previously for proper investigation.

 

I think in a heat of the moment / panic / fight or flight / life or death situation someone might be forgiven for an act of self defence / "manslaughter" but I don't think I could support murder - which is basically what you've implied - whatever the past allegations - and especially as there appears to have been no allegations / evidence of any such abuse until this story began.

To answer you Ian, see my reply to Owl for the reason why the friend suspects that the Coroner took no action. The friend is given to believe that the Coroner has to seek permission of the widow or widower to perform a post mortem if one has been requested (e.g. by a concerned party such as the friend) and that if this is denied, none takes place. Does anyone know if this is true btw?

 

Regarding allegations of abuse, the friend is very suspicious. The friend also lives in the real world and is cognisant of the fact that abused spouses rarely confide that it is occurring and put on a brave face so that even their closest friends seldom suspect that its going on. Nor is the friend oblivious to the fact that bullies and abusers can often be the most charming of people and are rarely suspected.

 

What the friend does know is that the marriage was a long and ostensibly happy one. That the husband's depression wasn't easy for his wife to live with at times was common knowledge, as was the fact that when it got her down too much, she would go on holidays without him and weekends away (bringing in a carer to look after him during those times as he was wheelchair-bound).

 

The only mention of abuse/rape etc. was to her lover just prior to them embarking on their affair. She had wanted the relationship to progress from platonic to sexual, whilst he preferred it to remain platonic as she was a married woman. Sympathy for her unhappy years was one of the factors that persuaded him, as he thought she deserved a chance of happiness. She had told him that the last time she'd had sex was with her husband 27 years previously and that it amounted to marital rape. He also told the friend that this made him feel a great deal less guilty about having sex with another man's wife and that he would never have felt comfortable about taking a lover who was being unfaithful to her husband under any other circumstances. The friend suspects that the whole abuse story may have been fabricated by a lady knowing exactly what a potential lover wanted to hear.

 

Even if the county coroner did not see enough evidence to proceed, that letter should have received a reply. I am thinking it may not have reached its destination.

 

I haven't posted before because I have been thinking about it during the morning, and there are some things which don't make a lot of sense. If the lover is wealthy, there is no reason why he could not have provided finance for the lady to move out and make a new life for herself. If the husband was confined to a wheelchair, his opportunities for harassment would have been limited. If she has a career, presumably she can support herself anyway?

 

It is true what Jules said, that you never feel free from an abuser until that person is dead. I suspect that if you kill the person yourself you never really get free from them. But there seems to be little evidence that the husband did abuse her. It's also worth considering that most women who have been through 27 years of misery and abuse would not be in haste to marry again and would prefer to have their own space.

 

I am afraid that there are sometimes - very rarely I think - instances of false accusations of domestic violence. These do the real sufferers no favours at all. I did know one man who was banned from seeing his wife or children - until her claims of attending A & E for treatment and making complaints to police had been looked into and it was found that she had done no such thing. The real story behind it was that the couple had quarrelled because the woman was obsessed with babies and wanted a fourth. The man had refused on grounds that he could not support more than 3, and would not consider more anyway while the 3 they had were still so young. He wanted a vasectomy, but wife said if he did that she would allege violence. He went ahead. So did she.

 

Anyway, back to these people. Questions to think about: what were the husband's finances? How much would have gone on nursing home fees if he had stayed there and lived for a few more years? How much does this lady inherit?

 

You say that her work allows her access to prescription drugs. This is worrying from the point of view of others. She is now after power of attorney even before she has married this man. This STINKS.

 

If I were in the position of the mutual friend, I would as a first step go in person to the coroner's office and ask why no reply had been received to the letter. Ask for an appointment with the coroner and take the emails. If no joy, got to the police and ask to speak to a CID officer. The desk officer will want to know why as it is his/her job to weed out timewasters, but all the friend has to say is that there is a concern and some possible evidence (the emails) that a very serious crime may have been committed. Don't be put off by uniform saying they will handle it, hold out for CID.

 

I don't think the mutual friend is going to have a minute's peace over this one so should act asap. As a matter of interest, how did the lady in question meet her lover?

 

In response to your most astute observations, Wise One:

and I still regard you as such despite your recent driving confession

 

The friend believes that the Coroner must have received the letter as it was sent by Recorded Delivery.

 

Hypothetically, if any of these people existed, the lady would be a member of the judiciary. (btw, my original post stated that her circumstances allowed her access to prescription drugs, not her work). The friend suspects that the letter was received and that the Coroner contacted the lady and knows her professionally (and probably personally too as the legal world is a small one). Could it be a case of "closing ranks"?

 

On that note, it would be very difficult for the friend to know who to approach with her concerns. He/she might find themselves in a nightmare world of "lost" evidence and cover-ups at a rather high level. The lady works closely with the police in her professional life and has many friends in the force. Quite off-putting - I think it would be a very brave soul indeed who tried to get justice under these circumstances. He/she could end up being framed for making false allegations even if they happen to be true.

 

Concerning the lady seeking power of attorney in respect of her lover, her personal and marital finances, like you Owl, the friend thinks this stinks too. Some 3 months before her affair began when Hubby was in good health (and manifesting no signs of his health deteriorating in either the short or long term), she sought the services of a valuer to assess the worth of various things which she and her husband jointly owned. She discovered that their extensive book collection alone was worth a great deal, lots of rare first editions which they had collected together over the years. Shortly after the valuation took place, she applied for power of attorney re Hubby. The friend doesn't know how or why it was granted (thinks Hubby just said OK) but granted it was.

 

The friend finds it somewhat coincidental that power of attorney seemed vitally important to the lady at a time when there was no reason to suspect that Hubby was going to become mentally incapacitated. Why was it decided that power of attorney be given to her rather than Hubby? They were the same age and equally healthy at that time. The friend also finds it coincidental that some 3 months after it was granted, Hubby had a fall which appeared to lead, via all the other subsequent health problems to his death. A cynic might say that the valuation and application for power of attorney could have been meticulous planning for the accident which led to the fall, meaning that he was conveniently out of her way (in the nursing home) and leaving her free to embark on the affair. Also leaving her free to do as she wished with his money and investments.

 

The nursing home was expensive. The lady did approach Social Services for financial help but her and Hubby's substantial joint wealth ruled that out immediately. The friend and lover both think that she is set to inherit a substantial sum.

 

The friend thinks that the lady would like power of attorney in respect of her lover as he is rather elderly and may die before they have the opportunity to marry. This would allow her to administer his assets and investments to her advantage. Hypothetically speaking of course, as is everything I've posted here.

 

As for the allegations regarding abuse, see my response to Ian's post above. The friend thinks it's very suspect.

 

Why would a woman want to marry again so soon after the death of an allegedly abusive husband? Like you Owl, I'd have thought own space/independence, more than sufficient means to support an opulent lifestyle......Maybe some people are just greedy? The lover is a wealthy man.

 

For your interest Owl, the friend believes that the lovers met through a group of mutual friends with a common interest.

 

As a footnote, the lady's lover is something of an expert in the art of self-deception when it's convenient and comfortable for him; the friend thinks that he knows what has happened (see the remark in my OP regarding the lady not sleeping well) but has blocked it from his mind. The friend thinks that he may have been instrumental in Hubby's demise but unwittingly so (reasons too controversial even for here!) Unwitting that is apart from knowing what was going on and neither saying nor doing anything to prevent it. Allegedly and hypothetically of course.

 

Many thanks for your replies, more to come I hope as the friend would really benefit from any suggestions were this a real situation as he/she would be having trouble sleeping