Women, Men And Work

[cycas]

Have just been discussing something with a friend of mine. She feels that the fact that women still earn on average considerably less than men is down to discrimination and expectations - that it's harder for a woman to get a high earning job and if she does, she has to work twice as hard as the men to keep it.

 

I feel (though there may be something in that) that more women are likely to want a better balance of life and work. So, it's more likely that a man will be prepared to work unsocial hours, travel away from home for work, or work long hours, whereas a woman in the same job is more likely to say 'stuff this, I'm going home' after a few years.

 

Which is not to say that there aren't women that will want that sort of job, but we are less likely to put up with all the poo that goes with it in the longer term...

 

What do you think?

[merledogs]

I work in a company where I am the only female in the role (there are 4 males) and I am the least paid, and I don't get the same bonus scheme or company car that they all enjoy. I also don't get taken as seriously whenever I make a suggestion, even if it is a good one which is later implemented (after being passed off as someone else's idea).

 

I don't have any kids so they can't use that as an excuse.

[griff]

when i was working i was the only female in the workshop..well 2 workshops so me and 40 lads i was paid exactly the same as the other apprentice...when i went to ask for a pay rise he got one too, the only difference was i used to for about 2 years work each saturday (we were on a one in three rota) that stopped when i met my then boyfriend who lived in a different city.

my personal feelings are it is about time that all pay was equal... i don't see why if you are a different sex you get paid more/less than somebody doing the same job same hours etc....perhaps i feel that way because i was treated fairly and therefore i fell that all workers should be treated fairly and equally

the only time i had any difficulty was when we got a new dealer principal...it was quite plain when he arrived he didn't want a female mechanic....a complete opposite to the people who took me on and the managers i had had in the meantime

[cycas]

I work in a company where I am the only female in the role (there are 4 males) and I am the least paid, and I don't get the same bonus scheme or company car that they all enjoy. I also don't get taken as seriously whenever I make a suggestion, even if it is a good one which is later implemented (after being passed off as someone else's idea).

 

I don't have any kids so they can't use that as an excuse.

 

Am quite shocked that this still happens.

 

What industry do you work in? I'm in IT/Web and have never come across anything like that - though I am an example of someone who has chosen to run a small business that just sort of pootles along rather than taking risks and trying to make it into a huge profitable success.

[Ruthi (borrowadog)]

I work in a company where I am the only female in the role (there are 4 males) and I am the least paid, and I don't get the same bonus scheme or company car that they all enjoy. I also don't get taken as seriously whenever I make a suggestion, even if it is a good one which is later implemented (after being passed off as someone else's idea).

 

I don't have any kids so they can't use that as an excuse.

 

Isn't that illegal? Oh yes, silly me, of course it is, has been for nearly 40 years!

 

Of course its one thing saying it is, and another going to an industrial tribunal and proving it. But if I were you the very least I would do is collect the evidence so that you can take them to the cleaners if they sack you. Oh, and I would join a union too, they would help you fight the case.

[merledogs]

Am quite shocked that this still happens.

 

What industry do you work in? I'm in IT/Web and have never come across anything like that - though I am an example of someone who has chosen to run a small business that just sort of pootles along rather than taking risks and trying to make it into a huge profitable success.

I've worked in the IT industry and never seen it happen there, but they are more modern industries.

 

It's much more commonplace than you think. I work in a very male dominated environment, women are mostly employed as support staff or in functions such as HR, FInance, etc. On the operational side of it, it's all men.

 

Ruth - have done all of those things

[Ian]

I'm a bit old fashioned (not chauvanist!) , ie

 

If a woman wants a career that's fine by me & I certainly don't think they should be allowed to be paid less if they are doing exactly the same job.

 

However, I think if a couple wants to have a family then at least one of them should stay at home & take care of those children whilst they are young. Usually it's the woman & personally I think they are usually better at & it's also a very important job not something to be looked down upon (though if they agree it will be the man at home fine, their business)

 

I think a woman can get to the top if she does choose a career - Margaret Thatcher for example - but even if it's an unspoken thing I suspect it probably is still "secretly" harder for them to do so in many fields I'm afraid. The "old boys network" is probably far from dead!

Edited August 5, 2010 by Ian

[Whizzie]

I'm a fundraiser for a charity. There are definitely more women than men in the third sector.

 

Over the past few years I've done quite a bit of recruitment & have employed both men & women. It has honestly never crossed my mind to pay one person more or less than another because of their sex. I always base it on the salary range I can offer and their relevant experience. I know I should say that but it is also 100% true.

 

I've never seen any evidence of men getting higher salaries in either charity I've been employed by.

 

Oh & I have vacancies coming up in the Autumn if anyone is interested!

[cycas]

Probably should have mentioned that my friend works in academia and the NHS. I was shocked to hear that highly qualified women in these areas feel that they are actively discriminated against.

[murtle]

I did my degree thesis on "is there really a glass ceiling for women in the hospitality industry" the research and information surprised me...in that there wasn't, but that more women chose the flexibility of hours that the hospitality industry had to offer.

 

However, my personal experience is that men are better at deciding that they are worth more and fighting for it. I have a tendancy to be a bit weak when it comes to salary negotiations. I wonder if that is more wide spread?

[merledogs]

If a woman wants a career that's fine by me & I certainly don't think they should be allowed to be paid less if they are doing exactly the same job.

Women don't have to be doing the same job to be entitled to equal pay. Under the Equal Pay Act, they have to be doing a job "of equal value". There was a case against a council recently where the cleaners took them to tribunal because the landscapers had received bonuses, but the cleaners hadn't. The court ruled in favour of the cleaners and deemed that their jobs were of equal value so the council had to pay them bonuses as well.

Edited August 6, 2010 by merledogs

[Ian]

I'm a fundraiser for a charity. There are definitely more women than men in the third sector.

 

Over the past few years I've done quite a bit of recruitment & have employed both men & women. It has honestly never crossed my mind to pay one person more or less than another because of their sex. I always base it on the salary range I can offer and their relevant experience. I know I should say that but it is also 100% true.

 

I've never seen any evidence of men getting higher salaries in either charity I've been employed by.

 

Oh & I have vacancies coming up in the Autumn if anyone is interested!

 

I would think it's less common in the Charity Sector somehow, perhaps because more women have a natural empathy for the type of work?.

 

What charity do you work for & what areas by the way?

 

Women don't have to be doing the same job to be entitled to equal pay. Under the Equal Pay Act, they have to be doing a job "of equal value". There was a case against a council recently where the cleaners took them to tribunal because the landscapers had received bonuses, but the cleaners hadn't. The court ruled in favour of the cleaners and deemed that their jobs were of equal value so the council had to pay them bonuses as well.

 

Hmm, interesting. I can see it for the bonuses and "jobs of equal value" though I wonder whether they would have been successful if the argument had been cleaners should be paid the same as gardeners?

Edited August 6, 2010 by Ian

[merledogs]

Hmm, interesting. I can see it for the bonuses and "jobs of equal value" though I wonder whether they would have been successful if the argument had been cleaners should be paid the same as gardeners?

I think they were on the same level on the pay scale, which is how it was deemed that the jobs were of equal value.

[Whizzie]

What charity do you work for & what areas by the way?

 

Since March I've been Head of Fundraising & Marketing for Calibre Audio Library. We offer a free service of audio books by post to people who have sight problems, dyslexia or another disability which means they cannot read print.

 

It's a national charity based near Aylesbury.

 

Before that I worked for a hospice at home service in Herts & Bucks - Head of Fundraising but a narrower role & more to do with events & Community Fundraising

 

I've been a rescue volunteer in various ways since 1999

 

Before that I was in the commercial sector but given a choice I will stay in charity work

[Fee]

I think probably both things apply to women's careers.

 

There is undoubtedly active discrimination in some jobs and industries, particularly towards the top of the pyramid, but I think Victoria's point that a lot of women simply don't want to sacrifice so much of 'real' life to work is also true - though increasingly I think some men are also feeling the same way.

 

I know that for me my focus changed radically after I had children. Before that I was doing a very pressured job in London working silly hours (I loved it), but after I had children it soon became pretty clear to me that working in that environment and paying someone else to bring up my children just wasn't what I wanted.

 

My husband was also in a very pressured job at the time and felt he had no time for home and family. We took a collective deep breath, both handed in our notice and put our London flat on the market with absolutely no idea what we were going to do next. It was the scariest (and best) thing we've ever done.

 

We moved to Wiltshire, and in our case it was my husband who ended up staying at home. Not part of any plan, I took a temporary job which then turned into a permanent job so I worked (but sensible hours) and he looked after the children for the first few years. I guess in our case we both sacrificed 'careers' for a better home/work life balance (but we are odd).