Canny Collars

[celeste]

Since the " Pap affair " Ben, my previously (nearly) perfect dog has now decided he should bark and lunge at any dog he see's, you can imagine that trying to stop a 40 K mastiff from doing this whilst holding two Staffies in the other hand is quite a job, it doesn't happen that often thankfully, it happened last night though and I could quite easily have gone for a burton, luckily Spud and Daisy only react to other dogs if they are close to them, but if Ben carries on I can see them adopting his behaviour. From what I've seen I like the idea of the Canny Collar as it can be switched from a normal collar to a head collar without a great deal of faff, which would be ideal for me to walk Ben the short distance to the field across the road, where he can be let off lead, or, as was the case last night, while we walk past gardens where dogs live. Has anyone tried one, and would it work with lunging ? Ben doesn't pull on the lead whilst walking, only if he spots another dog.

[merledogs]

Could you do some one to one training with him until you manage to train him out of it? I have found that a solid "leave it" command covers a multitude of sins. Taffy always used to lunge and bark at other dogs when he was on lead (which started the others off so I'd end up with five dogs doing it), until I taught him "leave it" and now he's a zillion times better. Better to do it now before it becomes too 'ingrained' as it will be more difficult once it's become habit.

 

I'd be worried, if he's that strong, that he would do himself some damage with a headcollar. Someone I know used a headcollar on her mastiff (who was the most placid thing going usually but went a bit beserk with other dogs on lead) and he ended up damaging his neck/spine badly because he was lunging and twisted it. It's one of the reasons I don't like headcollars.

 

If you are going to use one, there are types which allow you to fasten a double ended lead to the headcollar and harness - not sure if the Canny Collar is one of those as I am not an expert on headcollars.

 

I hope you manage to get Bendolina out of the habit soon

Edited July 23, 2010 by merledogs

[Ruthi (borrowadog)]

I've used one on little Darri (who hated it!). It fastens behind the head, so is really only any use on little dogs, IMHO.

 

Personally I'd suggest you talk to a trainer, but if he were mine, I'd be walking him on his own when on lead, and distracting him with lots and lots of treats. I don't think its realistic to even try to control 3 powerful dogs on lead if one is getting upset.

 

Ruth

[chickentikka]

I tried a canny collar on Minke (I think) and found it useless as if you let it go slack it fell of her nose (which is quite short) - give me 5 and I'll see if it's still in the bottom of the dogs dressing up box.

 

Yes it is - size 5, if you want to try it pm your address and I can post it tomorrow

 

Must admit I'm a dogmatic fan, it's the only known device to stop Dex when he sees a squirrel and I don't end up flat on my face anymore

Edited July 23, 2010 by chickentikka

[celeste]

Thanks for the replies

 

I will be giving him some one to one, how successful it'll be in a dog that doesn't play with toys or take treats I'm not sure, I'll have to do some real lateral thinking as to what I can use to distract and tempt him We only come across another dog every few weeks so the head collar wouldn't be for every walk, really just for his last ten min walk at night, and this is the first time I've seen that dog in the garden, just bad luck.

Thanks for the offer of the CC, but it would be too small for Ben, which is a bummer, I'm still undecided, he's not aggressive with other dogs, just arses about when he see's one so I feel I do still need something but I take the point about it perhaps not being the best option for a big dog, he has two harness's, a Halti one, which he can still lunge in, and a Walkeeze which isn't great for him as he tends to lag behind on lead and it makes it awkward for him to walk, I'll have a look at the Dogmatic.

[khanu]

I'd be inclined to use a head harness with normal harness and double ended lead. I don't like canny collars, all the dogs I've used it with have snorted as it seemed to restrict breathing somehow. I much prefer dogmatics, but they don't suit all dogs, so it may be worth looking at haltis or gentle leader (which is often better for large headed shorter snout breeds).

 

As far as training goes, what you probably really need to do is some counter conditioning and desensitisation. The easiest way to do this by far is if you have something your dog will sell his soul for and only ever use this when in the presence of another dog. It is obviously a struggle if you have a dog that doesn't appear to be interested in anything.

 

Is there something that he goes mental over when at home? Or at least show the flicker of interest for?

Is he eating normally at home now? As I might be inclined to use his meals for training outside.

If there is something he loves indoors but won't take outside that indicates to me that he is possibly too stressed outside. Breckin is very much like this over tugging - he'll tug on anything and everything indoors, but won't outside or training. I therefore have worked a lot on making him comfortable to do ti outside - I've done this by pairing it with something he will take outside and loves - food for Brek which I admit makes it easier. I've basically done 5secs of tug, followed by food, in the house in every single room, and then extended the amount of tug time. Then repeated in the back garden so he'll tug for a few minutes outside (can now use it as a reward in its own right at home/garden). Then in the front garden, then outside on path etc etc. We are now at the point where he will tug at training for about a minute (this is followed up with a treat) and I can use it as a reward there, he'll tug for about 30s in the park, and it isn't enough of a reward in its own right there.

 

With Ben I'd be going through a list of things that he will do and enjoy at home - try out different foods (baby food off a spoon? peanut butter? cream cheese? steak, chicken, etc etc.), different toys. If you do find something reserve it for training in the house and start pairing it with other things, so say it's peanut butter off a spoon, I'd start pairing tug/ball with it - to start he maybe needs to nose the ball to get the peanut butter, then put his mouth over it etc. Keep these sessions really really short. Also try the peanut butter in the garden - will he take it there, do some really really easy stuff outside (like sit if he knows it really well, better if it's something with more movement though like a spin, but it has to be something he knows really really well and is easy for him) and reward with peanut butter, again really short session, to start with I'd even just do one cue, he sits, big party of peanut butter, back indoors. Then repeat out the front, then just outside front gate, and gradually get away from house building his love of peanut butter every where and any where. Then you can start using it for counter conditioning.

 

It may be a lot of work, but it is worth doing, and for a variety of different things. Training is so much easier if you have a hierarchy of rewards you can use. I have an A B C list for all the dogs. I use A rewards for counter conditioning and difficult/new training, B rewards when we are maintaining things (with A rewards sprinkled in) and work on getting C rewards up to A/B standards.

[clairebear]

not read all the way through yet, but i got the canny collar for jack my boxer and i think it was the best thing ever. i felt the face halties were useless and i really felt the canny collars worked. i say 10/10 for canny collars best thing ever x

[celeste]

Wow thank you for the very comprehensive reply

 

Ben's eating fine now, but ( this is a common breed trait) he's still not motivated by food, his desire to carry out a behaviour or just not "play ball" out weighs any treat, as for playing and toys, he plays with a toy possibly once a week, he will play with a toy if Spud's involved, but obviously that would make any desensitization difficult, he'll take a treat outside no problem, as long as there's nothing else to take his attention, TM's are incredibly focused, if he see's something in the distance he will quite happily sit for 10-15 min's just staring at it . Funnily enough what I think would float his boat is meeting other dogs, he does enjoy meeting them, sadly since the Pap incident things have gotten rather mixed up in his brain and I think he now feels his job is to keep other dogs away from me and the other two, he also really enjoy's chasing cyclists, but somehow I don't think that would be an appropriate reward .If a dog approaches him from behind or if he approaches from behind, there's no problem, it's just if he clocks the other dog he then goes into this lunge bark behaviour. I don't think it will be too difficult to turn him around, he has excellent communication skills with other dogs, another factor to consider is his castration, which I feel has taken some of his confidence with other other dogs.

I'll hopefully be taking him down to my friends for a bit of training using her non-reactive Staffie Peggy next week, if nothing else it will let me concentrate on his behaviour before during and after the meeting in a safe controlled situation.

 

I discovered something interesting on our walk this morning, where we walk there are clusters of sheep who have escaped their field, not a problem with the Staff's as they are trained to ignore livestock, different matter entirely with Bendolina, he's obsessed with them, we were coming back down to the car park and there was a gang of yob sheep hanging round the car ( I think they were after my mobile phone ) so I started yelling and waving my walking pole in the air to get them away from the car before I got too close, Ben was on the point of charging them so I held the pole about a foot in front of his chest to interrupt his charge, and he leapt backwards, now I have never ever used a pole to control him or any other dog, so either the waving it in the air made him leery, or, his previous owners have used a pole or something similar, although I find it hard to believe they would do that. ( I should point out he was on a flexi lead so the sheep weren't in any danger )

 

I think I'll order a Dogmatic for him rather than the Canny, fingers crossed he'll take to it, he has an average length snout so it should fit ok.

[merledogs]

Does Bendolina like attention/fuss? If treats won't work (and I rarely take treats out with me) could you use praise and squeaky voice instead? I used the voice of doom initially for training Taffy to "LEAVE IT" but now he is used to it, it's more of a warning type "leave it" and a big fuss when he does as he's told.

[safneo]

Had the same problem with Neo and training outside. He will do anything for a leg tickle though Again, I had a canny collar for Saffy for pulling, but she could dip out of it quite easily once she got wise to it Make sure that you get him used to wearing the headcollar at home and for short periods along with reward first before taking him out on it. Maybe try feeding his dinner in it.

[celeste]

He does like attention, when he feels like it , TM's are more like cats than dogs tbh, they are trainable, if they feel like it, they take treats, if they feel like it, they will play, if they feel like it. He has developed a liking for the Chuckit wand , so I'll use that next week, although in all likely hood he'll be off it in a few days, novelty is everything where Ben's concerned.

The Canny Collar slipping off the nose does seem to be a common complaint, it's a shame as the, being able to leave it on when they are off lead would have been right handy.

[Mags]

I used a canny collar on Bruno boxer and he hated it (it's since been rehomed to a Fugee ). I had started to introduce it gradually with him wearing it for a while around the house, then just walking around the back yard or front garden and then very short walks. Now Bruno loves his walks but it got to the stage that when he saw the canny he wouldn't come near me

 

I got a front fastening halti and the problem was solved immediately. I didn't have to get him used to it, just put it on and go. The problem I had with Bruno was constant pulling and walks were a nightmare. With this halti, walks are a pleasure and I am able to take the three dogs together.

[celeste]

I used a canny collar on Bruno boxer and he hated it (it's since been rehomed to a Fugee ). I had started to introduce it gradually with him wearing it for a while around the house, then just walking around the back yard or front garden and then very short walks. Now Bruno loves his walks but it got to the stage that when he saw the canny he wouldn't come near me

 

I got a front fastening halti and the problem was solved immediately. I didn't have to get him used to it, just put it on and go. The problem I had with Bruno was constant pulling and walks were a nightmare. With this halti, walks are a pleasure and I am able to take the three dogs together.

 

I've used a Halti before ( not on Ben) but found it tended to ride up into the eyes, did it do that on Bruno ?

[celeste]

I've just ordered Ben a fake leather Dogmatic, plus matching lead, hopefully my measuring skills will be better than my failed muzzle measuring for Daisy

[chasta]

At least its easy to change dogmatics if you get it wrong, they were very helpful with Kenza's