Jack'S Aggression,

[Pendlewitch]

Now the problem has become serious! I came back from the stable yard today, Jumble was with me and as I went up the drive I could hear snarls and yelps, so flew round the corner and through the door in a split second. Jack had Cecil pinned in the corner and was, well, savaging him. Cecil was shrieking and trying to get away but he is just too old and his back legs do not have the strength. Jack was so intent on his attack that he did not see me until I grabbed him and chucked him into the back garden. Cecil was in a right old state, he was so upset, trembling and not happy to stand up. Fortunately his thick coat has saved him from physical damage but the shock of the attack stayed with him for at least an hour. I gave him some rescue remedy and loads of cuddles, he eventually calmed down but once I let Jack back in Cecil was very obviously not happy so I took him out of the kitchen. He is now flat out on the sofa!

 

My dog walker has told me that Jack has a real go at Jumble just as she was unloading them for their walk, again for no apparent reason, just a mindless attack and she said he for a split second threatened her when she intervened! Jack will now be muzzled when they are getting out of the car and I'm going to crate him in the kitchen. It's not what I want to do but I can't allow these attacks to continue, and they are becoming more frequent!

 

I don't know what on earth is going on, I have watched them in the kitchen and they all seem to interact very well, there is no growling or posturing from any of them. Jack does attempt to have a go when they are let into the garden but a swift 'don't you dare' stops him. They eat together without fuss and once we are away from the car they are fine.

 

I don't know if there is a solution to this problem, would Jack be better in a single dog home? Any input would be most welcome, I'm really at a loss with this!

[kats n greys]

Can't offer any advice, but wanted to send a and hope you get some help.

[celeste]

There does seem to be a pattern here, the attacks you've mentioned have all been at flash points,I'd guess (and it is a complete guess) that either the going through a door ( car door included) or just the heightened excitement of doing something (or in the case of the stable attack,the introduction of other dogs) is the cause, my dog Daisy is very like this too, and I have to be very particular how she interacts with my friends 3 dogs, how she enters their house, and how they enter hers, in Daisy's case I believe it's down to her not being confident, unfortunately she resolves her internal conflict with aggression. Obviously I haven't a clue if this is the reason behind Jacks attacks, but it's something to consider, I've found the book Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt to be very helpful in teaching Daisy some self control, I've also found that having a set pattern of events that she can rely on happening at moments of conflict has helped too.

Hope this makes some sense, it's late, I'm tired and I've had a straight malt whisky

[merledogs]

Has he been to the vets to check there is no physical reason for his increasing aggression?

 

Whatever the problem, I think you are right to separate them until it's sorted and I hope you manage to restore harmony soon

[krusewalker]

There does seem to be a pattern here, the attacks you've mentioned have all been at flash points,I'd guess (and it is a complete guess) that either the going through a door ( car door included) or just the heightened excitement of doing something (or in the case of the stable attack,the introduction of other dogs) is the cause, my dog Daisy is very like this too, and I have to be very particular how she interacts with my friends 3 dogs, how she enters their house, and how they enter hers, in Daisy's case I believe it's down to her not being confident, unfortunately she resolves her internal conflict with aggression. Obviously I haven't a clue if this is the reason behind Jacks attacks, but it's something to consider, I've found the book Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt to be very helpful in teaching Daisy some self control, I've also found that having a set pattern of events that she can rely on happening at moments of conflict has helped too.

Hope this makes some sense, it's late, I'm tired and I've had a straight malt whisky

 

Im thinking the same............its aroual issues.

What breeds are they.

i think separation and calming non exciting non aorusing activity when in eahc others company are in order.

Quite often doorways are flashpoints for these incidents

 

Tllingly, you say Jack hasnt left any maeks on the other one.

 

I would hazard the other ones coat wasnt relevant there, because if Jack meant to injure, im sure he would/could?

 

Maybe Jack is 'pushing him away'........maybe its all about distance creation?

 

What is there general daily exercise routine?

what diet?

[BillyMalc]

I know it's starting to sound repetitive, but I do think that Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt is the solution to all things but bad weather!

There's also another book, Bringing Light to Shadow, which I thought would be a very interesting read - will order it if I have any spare cash ..

Other than that, could a good behaviorist help?

 

Fortunately Sparks has never shown any aggression towards any of us at home, but he's still got his hang-ups that I'm trying to deal with, so I can empathise. Let us know how Jack gets on, okay?

[Mrs Mop]

Jack had Cecil pinned in the corner and was, well, savaging him. Cecil was shrieking and trying to get away but he is just too old and his back legs do not have the strength.

 

 

Have a full vet check for Cecil, he may have a health problem that is hidden, Jack may be picking it up.

 

I had this before Ellie had the tracheotomy in, I couldn't get in the house one day because Bonnie was attacking Ellie behind the door, when I pushed the door open I pushed the dogs along the floor. It is normal dog behaviour for the old and sick so the first thing to do is to open a bottle of wine and chill while you work out how to manage this. It isn't difficult, just never leave them loose alone. This will hurt you a lot more than your dogs so don't feel you are being mean to them, you are not, you are just keeping Cecil safe.

 

Watch for the triggers, you will pick these up and take action before Jack does, you may slip on on occasions at first but don't get to stressed if you do.

 

The main thing is for you to keep calm, says me who panicked every time

 

Since Ellie had the tracheotomy in, Bonnie is fine with her, she must have picked up something wrong before I did.

 

[Jacobean]

Some great advice above. We brought a naughty dog into our household but were able to keep permanently separated from my own. I have lived with this since last March. For us things have improved enormously and in time I don't see there being any issues at all. Scooby JRT stepped foot into our household and decided he was going to savage all of our dogs no matter what breed or sex they were. He meant it and Fergus has had a puncture wound from him before today. We have never ever left them alone together without being around and on hand to take immediate action. We couldn't afford to because he really is vicious and just wants to do as much damage as possible. He has been worked in the past. I believe his has been because he doesn't understand other dogs and will attack before he is attacked. He doesn't give anything a chance by weighing it up. He will just fly. He will do it with anything that un-nerves him so we have to be very careful when we take him out as if humans have him wary at all he will fly at them and mean it too. It's self preservation for him. As Krusewalker says above also he has had the excitement problem. When meeting up with the others, when all going out into the garden in the morning for first tinkles they all try and fly out the door at once and where the 2 Vizsla are loud and lark about in brotherly, playful manner he thought they meant it and would have a go at them. He has learned that their behaviour is play. He has watched them from afar over several months and now we can let him play with the others and it's wonderful to see. He hasn't played with anything in his life apart from little things he does by himself. I had to teach him not to bite me when playing to begin with as he didn't realise. He has had to learn social etiquette basically. With our mob there is an element of male competitiveness between them all. Putting all this down in the hope some of it may help you and also to know you're not alone with this problem.

 

I would get Cecil vet checked. Dogs can get worried when another of the pack are poorly and instead of leaving them alone or loving them they will attack them. Even much loved companions.

 

The key is to never leave them alone together and don't do anything that sets Jack up to fail. Don't let them walk through doorways together. Or cross pathways. Keep them away from each other when you're near vehicles. Don't let them travel loose together in the vehicle either because if something kicks off when you're driving you are unable to get to them quickly and stop it and you could have a very serious accident.

 

Scooby is getting on well with Bracken & Fergus now but I still leave him separated when I leave the house and at night. He also travels completely separate to them in the car.

 

Hope something of what I have said has helped.

[Mrs Mop]

The majority of times Bonnie went for Ellie was if someone came into my house, I don't let them go to the front door and as I live on my own I couldn't control this unless I crate one of them which I now do. Once everything as settled down I am able to let Bonnie out of the crate without any problems.

[Pendlewitch]

Many, many thanks to all for your input. There are some really useful comments there, the mention of the flashpoints or triggers makes perfect sense! It's probably worth mentioning that Jack (JRT) came to me about 4 years ago, very poorly socialised having been shut in a bedroom for 3 years. He is noise sensitive and is rarely off lead as he can bolt without warning, some sounds are obvious, gunshot in particular terrifies him but some things I think only he hears. When he is off lead if Jumble (BC)is being a boingy barker which he is most of the time then Jack will attack him, Jumble is a non-reactive dog but has been pushed over even his limits at times and he has had a go back on more than one occasion, this does not back Jack off at all!

 

Cecil (Huskly/Lurcher) has always been top dog and could quell Jack with a glance, Jack only once tried to attack him and got very firmly put in his place. Cecil is now 12 though, has quite severe arthritis and colitis, he's a bit wobbly on the back end and can't tolerate being knocked about, (He is on metacam by the way)

 

I have realised that as Jack is very good on the lead I think I don't interact with him enough, he is overweight (porker) and probably under exercised. As I can't take him with me to the stables he sort of gets lumped in with Cecil's shorter walks which is more than a bit unfair on him. This morning I took him round to the field and put a long clothes line on his harness and gave him his jolly ball, he goes totally crazy with this ball and scoots it around with his nose, getting so cross that he can't pick it up. He has to be on the line as there is no way I can get him off the ball or stop him dashing off over the horizon with it. After getting my foot bitten once he soon realised it was quite good fun if I booted the ball for him. Then we went and sat on the bench for a while and had a bit of a chat, trotted back home where Jack greeted the others with great delight.

 

Cecil has still removed himself from the kitchen, he has emptied the rubbish bin in the front room, rooted through the cat litter, bounced on the beds and pulled a load of books off the shelf in the study so is having a brilliant time!

 

Unfortunately I can't leave Jack on his own as he gets very stressed and barks continually. When I go out I'll put him in the crate so he doesn't have a go at Jumble! I'm really going to work at this and hopefully achieve some sort of resolution or compromise! Once again thanks to all for brill help! Watch this space for updates!

[Laurel n Hardy]

Sorry no extra advice as the fugees here have more knowledge

than me about it it but a to all of you

[Mrs Mop]

We get into the habit of doing things a certain way, when we started this it was suitable but things change, we sometimes need a kick up the backside to take us out of this comfort zone and rething things. Jack has given you a kick up the backside and you are thinking differently now. I have had many kicks from my dogs over the years, we can learn so much from these times.