Pendlewitch Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Jack has always been a bit useful with his teeth and has to be watched. His attacking tricks have caused Jumble, a totally non reactive dog to seriously retaliate but only out on walks. Jumble did beat the hell out of Jack when he had been grabbed once too often and when Jack grabs its pretty savage. So If I'm chucking the ball Jack is muzzled, he still tries to bite though, thick mutt. A few days ago I caught him having a serious go at Jumble, I'd turned back to check the door and he'd just flown at poor Jumble. Yesterday my niece had called in and she caught him having a go at Cecil, a year ago he would not have done this, he had a more than healthy respect for Cecil after being firmly put in his place by Cecil when I first got Jack. Thing is Cecil is now an old man and does not have the ability to retaliate like he used to. There does not seem to a definate trigger for Jack's behaviour, it's fairly random. He will not change now, he is too damaged by his past life but I have to protect both Cecil and Jumble so the obvious idea is to crate him if there is no-one in the room. This would not be the 'safe haven' crating, it would be more behind bars and does seem rather extreme. They live in the kitchen and when Jack is not causing grief he is well cute and they seem to get on well until he kicks off! Any other ideas on how to handle this please! Edited July 24, 2009 by Pendlewitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacobean Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I'm in the same boat at the moment only things are improving here slowly. Scooby hates all dogs with a vengeance but has grown to like the 2 he lives with. Still has his moments and when he goes he means to do the utmost damage. We are lucky in that we've been able to separate him completely off from the others whenever we needed to. I never leave him in a room with them alone unless I can see what's going on and can get there quickly. We have got to the point where I can nip to the loo, for a shower and leave them together but there was a time we couldn't. I don't believe I will ever leave them alone together and go out of the house but time will tell. We've tried crating Scooby and having them in the same room in the early days but it didn't help our situation and just used to wind him up more. Think one of the tricks is not to get too complacent when things are going well and be caught off your guard. In Scooby's case he has been worked and has been used to attacking things all his life. He's also very defensive. If he is wary of a situation he won't weight it up. He will attack to get in there first and save himself. So we also have problems with people if they un-nerve him. Are you able to separate them off when needs be? If so I would do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendlewitch Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I did wonder if crating would may things worse. I have since found out from my lazy git of an OH that Jack does it 'all the time' and when asked what he does about it the reply was 'nothing! I could seriously slap him!!! He has now been strongly advised TOLD that he takes immediate action, rates Jack soundly and removes him from the situation one way or the other. It's no good if I'm on the case and taking action and the OH is just accepting it, the dog gets very mixed messages this way. Will see how we get on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mop Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Maybe in different rooms with gates across the door will be a better option for Jack, he can still see and talk to Jumble but can't attack him. If Jack will jump the gate put one on top of another up so he can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rileyroo Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 'Rating Jack soundly' by which I assume you mean telling him off isn't going to achieve anything. For whatever reason Jacks feels the need to attack your other dog and you turning round and telling him off for doing so isn't going to stop it. You need to teach him how you do want him to behave, rather than telling him off when he gets it wrong - how is he supposed to know what he's supposed to do if you don't teach him? So, put him on a house line and reward Jack (use his dinner if necessary) when he's in the same room as your other dog and is calm. Feed him a treat or his kibble just for being there, and if he can't cope being in the same room and starts to go off on one just use the house line to lead him calmly from the room. When he's calmed down try going back in again, and turn right around and walk out again if he's not calm. Reward him heavily when he is calm. Don't let them be in the same room at the same time unless supervised, and unless you've got some treats on you. Randomnly reward your other dog too - because he's already doing what you want him to do and he's also seeing Jack getting rewarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redditchlady Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Maybe in different rooms with gates across the door will be a better option for Jack, he can still see and talk to Jumble but can't attack him. If Jack will jump the gate put one on top of another up so he can't. I would say the same. Dylan used to be terribly unpredictable with dogs, even our own in the house. If he started any signs of baring his teeth he was popped in the kitchen to calm down behind a stair gate. I do hope you can get things sorted. I do sympathise as it is impossible to be watching 24/7 Kazz x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumpole Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 it all really depends on why hes doing it is the aggression frustration for example one of mine will redirect onto another dog if say i go to answer the door and both are jostling in the living room to greet the visitor. or it could also be over resources such as food or toys or even a bed, or defensive (if the other dog is in his face) you really need the cause of the aggression in order to treat it, and diagnosis of the cause should ideally be done by a good behaviourist with a background in aggressive behaviours as its easy to misdiagnose the cause and do more damage by handling it in the wrong way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendlewitch Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Rumpole I wish I knew why he does it and it is kind of redirected now you mention it. He does not understand play in any form due to his lack of socialisation and isolation in his previous home. He seems to take it as aggression and responds agressively but the attacking in the kitchen is kind of random, sometimes Jumble just gets up and Jack will dive in. I would put Jack out of the kitchen but in the front of the house he picks up so much noise that bothers him from our very quiet street he either barks like crazy or has a panic attack, banging car doors is a major worry for him. I also could not trust the OH to ensure he does not get out the front door on him. He's a major worry with his noise sensitivity, panic attacks, endless barking, sudden fits of shredding his mat in his car crate, etc, etc. I've tried Dap, various herbals, calming music and a host of other things I can't remember now and had no success. He is hard work and a high input chap but I won't ever give up on him. At the moment he is fast asleep in bed with Cecil! Now that's a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReikiAnge Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Have you ever tried Tellington Touch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safneo Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Have you ever tried Tellington Touch? I was going to suggest that. Also what are you feeding him? If you can calm his general demeanour then he won't be so reactive with the other dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendlewitch Posted July 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 He just loves the Tellington Touch and goes into a trance with a silly grin on his face but it does not alter anything about him. Cecil too loves it and slides to the floor in ecstasy but for some reason Jumble will not tolerate it at all, strange! They are all fed on Burns Chicken or Lamb and Rice. Jack has one of those awful cooked bones in his car crate, it's the only thing that stops him barking for a micro second or two! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumpole Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 I think it may help if you started to keep an events diary detailing where he is is when it happens,who else is present(human or dog), Time that it occurs, what happened before, during and after the incident, how you and other dogs reacted to the incident and what his reaction was to your reaction. This might help locate a trigger or cause and that in turn may give ideas as to the required actions, it will also provide vital info should you approach a behaviourist, with the other issues you have mentioned he sounds fearful so defensive behaviour is possible. sometimes seemingly normal things can be perceived as a threat by a dog and reacted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyMalc Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 In addition to all the top advice already given, I would agree that 'rating' Jack (i.e. telling him off) very likely will not resolve anything and might even make it worse. Sparky has been "rated" for his problem behaviour (albeit it less serious than Jack's) for years, basically out of ignorance, and it should be obvious that, if you have to keep telling a dog off for the same thing for years, that the information just doesn't get through in the for that particular dog's accepted format! The very best advice I've been given, is to get a copy of Leslie McDevitt's book 'Control Unleashed' (yes Mog, you and , it's your doing that has now made me a dedicated fan! ). It's aimed a lot at agility students, but its main focus is on reactive behaviour. The "look at that" technique has done absolute wonders for Sparks, and I'm only a beginner when it comes to training dogs - I'm sure that a more experienced person would already have taken Sparky through his KC good citizen gold by now(we'll get there, just a bit more slowly ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendlewitch Posted July 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Thought you might like to see a picture of his cuteness, a rare one off lead, the beach is the only place he will occasionally do this. Book purchased! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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