Ramsey Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 I know were not vets and shouldnt really speculate but I really could do with some suggestions from your own experiences to give me a clue about whats wrong with Michigan. I admit I am getting worried now Basically to cut a long story short he does like a good rough and tumble with his lady riend at the park, after a particularly mad run about on wasteland where the ground was soft and caving in a little Mich was acting a little stiff the next day. It seemed to wear off and he seemed ok again, then one morning out of the blue (no mad walks or playing) he woke up and couldnt put any weight on his back leg. It was bank holiday monday unfortunately so I didnt rush him to the vets but during the day it seemed to just be stiffness that wore off. I wasnt convinced he was putting proper weight on it after that but kept a close eye on it. Then about 2 weeks after that we had a walk for about an hour and a half and he was limping again and not really putting his weight on it so I got him straigh to the vet this time. The vet checked him over and checked for movement in his knee and said at the time 'yep, cruciate ligament knee injury' He was booked in for sedation and x-rays for the day and when I picked him up I was told it was good news, not cruciate ligament and no sign or arthritus in the xrays. We were sent home with 2 weeks of anti inflamatories. However 3 days before we were due back Mich woke up unable to put any weight at all on his front paw?! I rushed him back to the vet that morning and with a muzzle we ascertained that the pain was in his foot/toes and the vet is sure its unrelated to the back leg. Now Mich had been licking his front 2 paws a lot lately until they were soggy and I just assumed it was a bad habit from boredom because he hasnt been allowed to go out much. The vet suggested it could be something like an infection in the nail bed that hed irritated by licking which made it sore by morning but to be honest he was a little puzzled. So, we were sent home with new pills, 7 days of Medrone and 3 days of Zitac. Being the worried mum I am i googled these. Medrone makes sense being a type of anti inflammatory and used for immune system disorders but the only thing i can find for Zitac is that its for symptomatic treatment for the reduction of vomiting associated with chronic gastritis in dogs. .. Why is that helpful for his foot? Perhaps one of the side effects of Medrone is nausia but I havent read anything to this effect. So anyway his front foot does seem to be getting better, hes standing on it and letting me touch and apply pressure to it so thats good but im not convinced that his back leg is any better. Hes standing on it but he still does those little skips when he turns to avoid putting too much weight on it and still turns to lift that leg when he pees etc. Also after the back leg he was cut down to 15min onlead walks to rest, admittedly he drove us up the wall at home was very restless and kept trying to tear about round the garden which is completly normal for him. But this week after starting these pills hes not himself at all. Hes very subdued, lies down a lot rather than standing which is what hed normally do to watch you. Hes not asking for a bum scratch, not trying to run about, hes looking rather fed up and vacant and generally not Mich at all. Im convinced this evening that his face is looking more gaunt too Does anyone have any ideas what could be wrong? Do any of these symptoms sound familiar to you? Can anyone point me in the right direction to read up on possibilities? Were due back at the vets on Tuesday and im worried that either A hes going to 'look' better but not be or that B the vet just wont know what to try next. Id rather know what were dealing with and get him on his way to feeling better whatever the cost, not having any ideas is torture and I hate to see him so unlike himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celeste Posted July 5, 2008 Report Share Posted July 5, 2008 Gentle squish for Mich It all sounds a bit peculiar, no wonder your so worried What about his spine ? I've read about a few cases where it's been the dogs spine thats caused the limp, either an exploded disc or cracked vertabrae, from what I've read it seems to be quite easy to do. Dunno why he would have been prescribed the anti-vomit meds, it may well have an effect on dogs that it's not been made for.........hope that makes sense Did the vet x ray his foot ? it could be a cracked bone in his toe Sorry I'm not more help, if the vets still stumped you can always ask to be referred to your nearest vet school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathyw Posted July 5, 2008 Report Share Posted July 5, 2008 Agree with Celeste - ask for a referral - poor Mich hope he feels a bit better today and is cheered up muchly. He could be feeling down because of not being able to have normal exercise - when we had to restrict Bluleboys exercise he was very depressed and looked as if he thought he had done something wrong - hangdog expression fitted him perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyMalc Posted July 5, 2008 Report Share Posted July 5, 2008 No experience of cruciates (fortunately for us!), but for 2 1/2 years Mal was on supplements and the occasional pain killer, because he had been diagnosed with arthritis, first in his left elbow - how come we tackled Mt Snowdon 2 weeks after diagnosis no one could tell me - which has never played up since, and then his right back leg, by 3 different vets all together! Only the last one finally had the sense to X-ray him (never knew that you couldn't be certain of arthritis until your dog had been X-rayed, I mean you do think that vets know what they're on about, don't you? ), and happily informed me that Mal had a gorgeous pair of hips and joints! Since then I'd made an appointment with Kimbas mum, who is a McTimony practicioner, and she found within 5 minutes that Mal's "arthritis" was in fact an out of place disc in his back - my poor poor boy had been trying to tell me for 2 1/2 years that he had back pain! Two sessions later and Mal now very occasionally turns his hip in and avoids putting weight on his back leg, like after a particularly strenuous walk. The downside of this lengthy misdiagnosis is that Mal's back legs are really weak, because he's avoided using them for so long, and he can't do styles anymore, which, when you live close to the Peaks is a right shame! I'd personally be tempted to take Mich off the meds for a day or so and see what difference it makes, because I really don't like stuff that makes them listless and subdued. A few months ago we visited a homeopathic vet in a quest to give Mal as many as possible chances to fight both his lymphoma and leishmaniasis. She prescribed a remedy, after a lengthy consultation, and within a few days Mal started to be really ill. Now I know that homeopathic remedies can have that effect, so I stuck with it (poor Mal, another one of his mum's misjudgements! ), but booked us in for another appointment that following Saturday. All the while I was thinking that his illnesses were now kicking in and I was about to see the end of him. Turned out that Mal actually had colitis which was caused by the remedy! Needless to say did away with the remedy and gave Mal sausages instead, which had a much better effect on him Good luck with Mich's treatment, give him a big cuddle and keep us updated if you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmagic Posted July 5, 2008 Report Share Posted July 5, 2008 When my bitch had two undiagnosed discs out of alignment she always turned in the same direction and lifted her back leg as she turned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexis Posted July 5, 2008 Report Share Posted July 5, 2008 the zitac will have been prescribed to protect the stomach from any side effects of the anti inflammatory I would think. It's a common thing done in humans for people on things like aspirin, steroids and diclofenac/ibuprofen which can affect the stomach and can cause ulcers and gastritis. The anti gastritis drugs help protect against this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celeste Posted July 5, 2008 Report Share Posted July 5, 2008 the zitac will have been prescribed to protect the stomach from any side effects of the anti inflammatory I would think. It's a common thing done in humans for people on things like aspirin, steroids and diclofenac/ibuprofen which can affect the stomach and can cause ulcers and gastritis. The anti gastritis drugs help protect against this. Thats true but is that not Zantac rather than Zitac.........unless it was a spelling mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted July 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 Well im taking Michigan back to the vets early, first thing tomorrow morning. This morning he wouldnt eat his breakfast at all. If anyone knows Mich theyd know that was very very unusual for him! In all the time ive known him no matter how stressed, hyper or poorly hes felt hes ALWAYS happy for the opportunity to eat pretty much anything. Ive stopped the pills, I really dont think theyre doing him any good at all. Hes so subdued, hes flinching at the slightest thing, hes drinking and peeing a heck of a lot and now off his food. His front paw does seem to be fine again but his back leg doesnt seem to be any different. Watching him today hes walking slightly kind of john wayne style and not putting his weight on it properly. Weve had a bit of a cuddle and a Reiki session this evening which in general hes moved away from in the past but tonight he slept for a little while and seemed to be relaxed. Im going to take a urine sample into the vets with us tomorrow and if he has no good ideas ill be asking to see a specialist or physio that can give us some better answers, this has been going on too long now and Im convinced hes starting to loose weight especially in his face. I just want my boy back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumpole Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 luxating patella ? its not always obvious on exam because it tends to slip in and out so could be in normal position when examined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celeste Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Any news on Mich ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted July 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Mich ate half his dinner last night only because it had gravy in it and he ate a little this morning but nothing like his normal enthusiasm. We went to the vets first thing and they took blood to run some tests just in case. - Mich is now learning that the vets isnt so fun and was a little nasty monster The vet suggested more x-rays on the leg but I asked for spinal xrays too and said that Ive know several people to have dogs where the initial thought was cruciate ligament and its turned out to be spinal related so Michigan is booked to go back Wednesday morning to be sedated and have full spinal x-rays Thankfully AxA insurance have been very good so far they recieved the payment instructions on the 27th and a week later when I spoke to them the money was leaving their account to pay my vet and they should have it cleared in their account by the end of this week so a 2 week turn overs not bad at all and the Vet is happy to continue on that basis. *phew!* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yena Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Here's hoping it nothing too serious and the little mans having you on But, just in case I'm sending you loads and loads of healing and good thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexis Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 (edited) zitac is cimetidine and zantac is ranitidine, 2 different drugs which work in a similar way to decrease stomach acid.Both can be used in dogs. Charlie has luxating patellas, one has been operated on and the other is ok for now. she limps intermittently. When her leg was bad ( before surgery) she started by limping intermittently and this then became more often until she was doing it most of the time. Xrays showed she had some arthritic changes in the joint due to it luxating intermittently. Hers was pretty obvious on examination once she was limping on it most of the time. Hope it goes ok for Mich Edited July 7, 2008 by alexis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted July 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Well it was definitly the pills making him subdued and feel awful. He got better and better after I took him off them and hes back to trying to trick us all into giving him 2 dinners and driving us round the bend again Im inclined to say not Luxating Patella from what Ive read, too many things dont marry up there and vet did say last time there were no real signs of arthritus in the xrays. His front paw seems to be all better Id say, hes now in the vets today having 6 spinal x-rays and possibly another angle on his leg. Hes definitly starting to stand with his back legs further apart and his front paws together in a tripod fashion and not putting as much weight on the original bad leg so something is unstable somewhere and Im determined to make him feel better I managed to leave him today without upsetting myself too much, they let me stay with him while they sedated him, i think because he was such a monster on Monday when they took his blood Cant wait to see him later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yena Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Glad to hear it was the pills that were making him poorly Now, he just needs to get the rest of him better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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