kimthecat Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) Edited to add this is in reply to Cycas. Also sorry for hijacking the thread. This would make an interesting discussion in a seperate thread. Lots of points to consider there. I expect that Compassion in World Farming would have some answers. I've not had time to check out the website. I don't know how many farm animals are killed without stunning and consumed as kosher or halal meat , it must be a fair amount , more than the local village cow so where are these bred and farmed? How often are they killed? I expect there are good and bad slaughter houses regardless of whether it is halal or not. Years ago , chickens would be kept in gardens and then had their necks wrung or chopped off, I bet they had better lives than the chickens at Bernards Mathews, Do you feel the same about th e village cow and goat ? Would a well executed kosher death be better for them than than a large slaughterhouse death. There are lots of issued and concerns about the way we farm but at least people are looking for reform and are prepared to change rules to improve animals lives/ Ali Edited July 16, 2008 by kimthecat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimthecat Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 This is the link for CIWF http://www.ciwf.org.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Edited to add this is in reply to Cycas. Also sorry for hijacking the thread. This would make an interesting discussion in a seperate thread. Lots of points to consider there. I expect that Compassion in World Farming would have some answers. I've not had time to check out the website. I don't know how many farm animals are killed without stunning and consumed as kosher or halal meat , it must be a fair amount , more than the local village cow so where are these bred and farmed? How often are they killed? I expect there are good and bad slaughter houses regardless of whether it is halal or not. Years ago , chickens would be kept in gardens and then had their necks wrung or chopped off, I bet they had better lives than the chickens at Bernards Mathews, Do you feel the same about th e village cow and goat ? Would a well executed kosher death be better for them than than a large slaughterhouse death. There are lots of issued and concerns about the way we farm but at least people are looking for reform and are prepared to change rules to improve animals lives/ Ali Yes, I am sure that there are lots of bad things about kosher farmed animals too, I suspect most of them are factory farmed too - my point was that I'm not sure that the *death* is an area where there is a 'good way' and a 'bad way'. I know that there is a specific concept in Judaism of not causing unnecessary suffering to animals, and that is one reason why some of the scandals about kosher slaughterhouses have caused scandal among Jews too, not just among those who don't eat kosher - the idea of kosher is that it's supposed to be relatively humane, so when animals are killed in a way that causes unnecessary suffering, that's not just inhumane, it also means that the meat might not actually be properly kosher at all. There's a Jewish veggie movement that argues that because of this idea of not causing unnecessary suffering, Jews can obey the rules more effectively by not eating meat at all. I think the problem is that if you take a slaughtering system that was relatively humane 3,000 years ago, it doesn't necessarily translate well to the modern factory farming world, but I'm not sure that is a problem with kosher, so much as with mass-production of meat full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathyw Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 (edited) If I fled to a country to find safety, I am sure that I would be grateful to be allowed to live without fear - I know I would not then constantly moan about the said country, if I didn't like it I would move elsewhere and it is very easy to do so within the eu. No-one is forced to live here and it really does annoy me when people constantly put this country down yet came here of their own free will. I knew a women at the turkish baths years ago who was ritually cicumstized. She fled to this country and would go for anyone who slagged England off. She said I have thee daughters and I know that here they will not suffer what I and my sisters suffered. We are safe here. She told some of the women what actually had happened during the ritual. I went into the steam rooms as I couldn't bear to listen to it, when I came out they were all crying for what this women and many like her had been through. Edited July 17, 2008 by Kathyw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murtle Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Not all immigration is people coming here for safety. Many would love to go back *to where they came from* but actually have no choice as their parents brought them here and they are in what is almost a limbo with no feeling of *home* anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kats inc Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 If I fled to a country to find safety, I am sure that I would be grateful to be allowed to live without fear - I know I would not then constantly moan about the said country, if I didn't like it I would move elsewhere and it is very easy to do so within the eu. No-one is forced to live here and it really does annoy me when people constantly put this country down yet came here of their own free will. I knew a women at the turkish baths years ago who was ritually cicumstized. She fled to this country and would go for anyone who slagged England off. She said I have thee daughters and I know that here they will not suffer what I and my sisters suffered. We are safe here. She told some of the women what actually had happened during the ritual. I went into the steam rooms as I couldn't bear to listen to it, when I came out they were all crying for what this women and many like her had been through. Sadly female circumcision,although illegal is still practised in this country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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