What They Never Told You!

[wickychoo]

Doh! Too late for the edit, did a quick wikipedia search and found this:

 

PETA was criticized in 2005 when police discovered that at least 80 animals had been euthanized and left in area dumpsters over the course of a month. Two PETA employees approached a dumpster in a van registered to PETA and left behind 18 dead animals. Thirteen more were found inside the van. The animals had been euthanized by the PETA employees immediately after taking them from shelters in Northampton and Bertie counties.[85] In a 2005 column in the San Francisco Chronicle, PETA’s director of the Domestic Animals Issues stated that PETA began euthanizing animals in some rural North Carolina shelters via painless injection after it found that the shelters were killing unwanted animals with rifles and dilapidated gas chambers, both of which they claim are inhumane ways to kill animals.[86] Officials from both counties said they were under the impression that the animals would be euthanized only if a home could not be found for them, and after being fully evaluated by a veterinarian. Both counties suspended their agreements with PETA after the incident.

 

Sorry going O/T! Best go do some work now *sigh*

[skybluesu]

All I could find was this (am procrastinating at work ). I know the site is potentially dubious, but *anything* you read on t'interweb is dubious, from PETA, the BBC or wherever. Why do we inherantly believe one site over another? (Not a question you skyblusu, I am just musing to myself )

 

Oh I agree we should question anything we read and who is saying it and also who sponsors them, however I was looking for a direct quote from PETA as it was stated that PETA themselves were saying we should be releasing all our pets to defend themselves in the wild - I cannot find where PETA say that.

[celeste]

I couldn't find a quote about this either but I do remember that they were all for there to be no such thing as pets, I don't remember them saying they should all be turned lose tho' It did make me think twice about Peta, I thought it was a pretty silly thing to say, after all, there would be no such thing as the domestic dog or cat or the large majority of horse breeds if it wasn't for us, is that there ultimate goal ? I don't think so .

 

Anyway, back on topic.

 

The meat industry is always going to exsist, it's worth to much money for it to ever disappear, if changes are to be made in it people need to start buying meat from individual farms and suppliers, I'm very lucky where I am and have three organic farms who slaughter ( they actually go with the animals to slaughter and supervise it's done properly, badly slaughtered animals meat is tough, so I'm told) their own stock to choose from, they also have their own shops where they sell the meat, I think buying meat in this way will go a lot farther in changing animal welfare than not buying it at all ( I'm not suggesting people aren't veg or vegan, I can understand why you wouldn't want to put the flesh of another creature in your mouth)

 

Unlike most people I have been in a slaughter house, and it's not a pleasent place, thats for sure, but it was nothing like what Peta would have you believe, there was certainly no hitting or abuse and the slaughter men did their best to be as quick and efficient and keep the animals calm as possible, this was about 20 yrs ago tho' and was a relativly small place

[scotslass]

Oh I agree we should question anything we read and who is saying it and also who sponsors them, however I was looking for a direct quote from PETA as it was stated that PETA themselves were saying we should be releasing all our pets to defend themselves in the wild - I cannot find where PETA say that.

 

I found this on their website.

 

Contrary to myth, PETA does not want to confiscate animals who are well cared for and "set them free." What we want is for the population of dogs and cats to be reduced through spaying and neutering and for people to adopt animals (preferably two so that they can keep each other company when their human companions aren't home) from pounds or shelters—never from pet shops or breeders—thereby reducing suffering in the world.

[celeste]

I found this on their website.

 

never from pet shops or breeders—thereby reducing suffering in the world. [/i]

 

If nobody bought from breeders tho' it would still mean the extinction of separate breeds, I think their intention is good but ill thought out

[scotslass]

If nobody bought from breeders tho' it would still mean the extinction of separate breeds, I think their intention is good but ill thought out

 

I know ; I was just quoting their website. There are things about PETA which worry me, though most of their principles seem right. Didn't mean to imply I agreed with them about everything.

[sproggie14]

If nobody bought from breeders tho' it would still mean the extinction of separate breeds

 

This is probably a whole other topic but I don't see why that would be a bad thing. I'd rather have a whole load of indistinct mutts with good homes than set breeds of which thousands get put down every year.

[~Canis-Equus~]

Its likely there wont always be an even vaguely ethical meat industry in this country in the fairly near future.

 

The land we do have is 'fairly' suitable for animals.

 

Much of it is absolutely NOT suitable for raising crops for human food.

 

You can feed sheep on a welsh hillside, but you'll grow bugger all up there that a human could eat.

 

To make those parts of our land suitable for growing human food crops, you have to destroy massive amounts of natural habitat... hedgerows in east anglia anyone? Ah yes.... you wont find many. Crops ARE intensively farmed just like animals, and just like animals its not good for us, or for the environment.

 

So... no one buys ethical meat because its expensive. So everyone buys intensively produced meat such as the vast majority of whats available in your local supermarket.

 

That is intensively produced here, which is bad. Or overseas which is about a billion times worse, our standards for intensively farmed animals may not be that great in comparison to waht they really NEED and deserve... but it is STREETS ahead of their treatment in other countries.

 

We all stop eating meat... we intensively farm crops instead.

 

And then we have a summer like this, but it rains for approx 2 weeks longer.

 

This summer we saw what would happen if we produced only vegetable crops.... that is a warning to us all, if it had rained for a couple more weeks, there would be virtually NO crops viable in the UK this year.

 

Fortunately we had a few weeks of sunshine back in may, and we had a few weeks of sunshine at the end of august. That saved some of the crops, but prices will rise to take into account the demand compared to the supply.

 

So I agree farming standards need improving.

 

I vehemently disagree that this will be changed by boycotting ALL meat. The way its going this country will NEVER be able to sustain itself on vegetable/cereal production alone, another summer like this with no meat (and even WITH meat, animals need crops to, so far this summer we have only achieved grass!), production and we WOULD be on our knees.

 

We would be at the mercy of those countries exporting grains and meat (we already are), and food prices would be astronomical.

[celeste]

This is probably a whole other topic but I don't see why that would be a bad thing. I'd rather have a whole load of indistinct mutts with good homes than set breeds of which thousands get put down every year.

 

I do apologize for being completely off topic but this is such an interesting topic I can't help myself

 

But we might not have indistinct mutts, chances are ( if you believe Coppinger) what you would get after a long enough duration is what he terms as the Ubiquitous Red Dog, a small prick eared red dog with a some what foxy head, don't get me wrong, I've nothing against wee red dogs, I've known many and they have all been great dogs, but I kinda like the variety of diffrent breeds

[sproggie14]

I do apologize for being completely off topic but this is such an interesting topic I can't help myself

 

But we might not have indistinct mutts, chances are ( if you believe Coppinger) what you would get after a long enough duration is what he terms as the Ubiquitous Red Dog, a small prick eared red dog with a some what foxy head, don't get me wrong, I've nothing against wee red dogs, I've known many and they have all been great dogs, but I kinda like the variety of diffrent breeds

 

I like the variety too but not at the expense of the dogs themselves.

[Mrs Mop]

I found this on their website.

 

Contrary to myth, PETA does not want to confiscate animals who are well cared for and "set them free." What we want is for the population of dogs and cats to be reduced through spaying and neutering and for people to adopt animals (preferably two so that they can keep each other company when their human companions aren't home) from pounds or shelters—never from pet shops or breeders—thereby reducing suffering in the world.

 

 

That has changed, I stopped going to PETA after reading that they said that all domestic animals, pets and farm animals, should be released into freedom and not be kept in captivity.

[Happylittlegreensquirrel]

regardless of Petas stance on companion animals the majority of animals in the UK/USA are factory farmed and they do suffer during their miserable life and I don't believe that they treated any better during transport to the abattoir or when they are being slaughtered

 

 

search on Youtube or any similar websites and you will find countless videos showing employees of large factory farms ( normally poultry ) abusing and torturing those birds,

 

 

there maybe some very ethical farmers but they are in the minority , mainly because ethical farming produces meat and poultry thats more expensive than the mass produced stuff and supermarkets/fastfood chains squeeze farmers to lower costs all the time because the consumer wants cheap mass produced meat

[BilRed]

Animals in modern commercial farming often do not have a good life and that is not right in my opinion, I welcome the ethical farming movement.

 

However I wanted to point out that animals in the wild do not necessarily have a good life either. The ideal view of herbivores roaming free on plentiful pastures until a quick death at the hands/teeth of a predator comes along is not necessarily the way it is. Many are born and suffer and die from quite elementary illnesses. There is no help for a breech birth in the wild, both mother and baby would die a very long and painful death. Predators often only concern themselves with disabling their prey before they start eating it, animals caught by a pack would be torn apart alive. Animals in the wild die from starvation, thirst and exposure to the elements, those deaths are lingering and painful. Illness can kill whole herds. Prey animals in the wild know fear and terror too. Mothers have to watch helplessly listening to squeals or pain while their young become just another meal for a predator.

 

I don't think this excuses us for not doing our utmost to care responsibly and kindly with the animals we farm but life on the other side of the 5-bar gate is not that rosy.

 

I've also come to believe that in terms of animal welfare, meat eaters can have more influence than vegetarians. Not that I have any problem with people choosing not to eat meat but by becoming vegetarian you lessen your chance to put pressure on the farming industry whereas if as a meat eater you can demand ethically reared meat.

[Mrs Mop]

regardless of Petas stance on companion animals the majority of animals in the UK/USA are factory farmed and they do suffer during their miserable life and I don't believe that they treated any better during transport to the abattoir or when they are being slaughtered

 

If you go on the A64 between York and Scarborough you will see pigs and their litters free in fields with shelters, each pig has her own shelter and they can all mix and play. The fields don't look too good because pigs are very good a ploughing them up.

[jezza]

If you go on the A64 between York and Scarborough you will see pigs and their litters free in fields with shelters, each pig has her own shelter and they can all mix and play. The fields don't look too good because pigs are very good a ploughing them up.

 

But how do you know that it is that pig which ends up on your plate? In the main, I am veggie because although I don't disagree with eating meat, I want to know that the animal I am eating has been treated in a humane way throughout its life and death. I assume that if you spend more money, you tend to get better quality meat from an animal which has been treated correctly. However, seeing as I'm always skint I just don't eat it! The only meat I eat at the moment is trout which my boss at work catches, and I trust him to kill it quickly.

 

I try to get the more 'ethical' dog foods where possible and OH goes to farm shops which I think are better than the supermarket meat

 

Just wanted to add, I know the piggies which you are talking about, my parents live in scarborugh so we make that trip often. I love it when you can see all the little piglets rolling around in the mud good job I don't drive because I'd probably crash!!!