khanu Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 in short, it's simple, it's the society that make parents go out to work and not have any time to bring up their kids properly ,and Im speaking in general here,not those wonderfull mums and dads who magane do do a great job at both It's not like working parents are a new thing. Mum being at home was only ever an option for the wealthier classes. Certainly my Mum, my Gran, her mother, her mother etc etc were never stay at home Mums. Blaming it on parents working is a cop out. It's society's apathy, it's "out for all it can get" attitude that is the problem, and it's self perpetuating. Why should kids growing up give a s*** about anything if no one gives a s*** about them. Lots of people bemoan "kids today" but they are just as apathetic, not actually willing to do anything about it. Very few people actually try and help and very often those that do are criticised for not doing more by the people that sit there doing nothing. I include myself now in the masses sitting back and letting others do the work. It's mentally exhausting and I found last year that I had nothing left to give. Those that still struggle to undo the harm caused by society's sefishness have my utmost respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rotties Posted August 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 It has to start somewhere though, and society does care, I live in a town where there is alsorts for the kids to do but night after night they gather to get drunk on our local park. The kids today have so much and yet it isnt enough. Is it because as little ones they cant play in the streets anymore that they go off the rails when finally allowed out on their own? The society that first said you shouldnt smack children suddenly now have teenagers that think nothing of using knives and guns, or just their fist Our social reach has changed, at one time grandparents, aunts and uncles all lived within streets of each other there was always someone around to look out for the kids Is it the computer games the kids play that encourage violence?, the films they watch at a young age? Something has to change and pretty dam quick too, these kids are tomorrows adults and if we let them carry on the way they are doing we will become a lawless society! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Why should kids growing up give a s*** about anything if no one gives a s*** about them. Lots of people bemoan "kids today" but they are just as apathetic, not actually willing to do anything about it. Very few people actually try and help and very often those that do are criticised for not doing more by the people that sit there doing nothing. I think that works both ways - why should anyone else give a s*** about them if they dont give a s*** about themselves or anyone else? Some of these kids are given a chance & thrive. Some of them are given a chance & still can't be bothered to get their lazy backsides out of bed in a morning. You can only help someone who is prepared to help themselves! I'm not really a fan of enforced military service, don't believe "beating some sense into them" is the answer but do believe a little discipline & self discipline would do many of them a lot of good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khanu Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 I don't think it has anything to do with not be able to smack children anymore, or family not being nearby (I'm not sure that is true for the majority of the population anyway..... besides which all my family were within 30mins of each other when I grew up and I still never saw them very frequently). I do think the attitude of they are lazy and can't be bothered so why should anyone else be bothered is harmful. If you actually take the time to talk to some of these kids their feelings of self-loathing and worthlessness is just plain awful Reinforcing that belief by telling them they are lazy good for nothings is hardly going to help. I don't go a day without someone (in person or in the media) telling me how awful children are today. If someone is told everyday how useless, horrible, unworthy, stupid etc etc they are they *will* believe it (my OH certainly did, and still does to some extent) once they believe that why on earth should be bothered to change. Just take the exam results for example, every year we are told the exams are getting easier and easier and are worthless - how soul destroying for those just taking them, in the end why should you bother? People will only ever live up to the expectations you have of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzeanna Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 I was born just after the war, and lost my dad was I was six with TB which he developed while in a field hospital somewhere abroad. (Second world war, before any rude people ask!) I wasn't alone in being fatherless, plenty of other boys and girls were in the same boat, but I don't remember any of this general lawlessness that abounds today. We went to a typical Yorkshire village school infants in one room juniors in the other, and I can remember us all being in trouble for pinching apples from an orchard, and we were all lined up with hands out to get the cane. We moved from there when I was seven, so I cant have been that old. The headmistress was my mum's best friend, and I remember thinking that she wouldn't hit me...wrong!! we learned pretty early that there were rules, and breaking them brought retribution. Nowadays the kids attitude seems to be that if you've got it and they want it, they make sure they take it. When it dawns on the loony liberals that legalising drugs, turning a blind eye to domestic violence, and letting children have everything their own way we might manage to turn this country around, but I have a feeling it will be a long wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rotties Posted August 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Thank you Suzeanna, thats the point I was trying to make. We now have a generation that has more than any other generation thats passed. We have prisons full of people saying "it isnt my fault, I was brought up by a single parent, I was abused, we had no money", the excuses go on and on, no one takes the blame for their own actions anymore Single parents, lack of money, abuse, none of it is new to humans but the violence on the streets is worse now than ever before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 I do think the attitude of they are lazy and can't be bothered so why should anyone else be bothered is harmful. If you actually take the time to talk to some of these kids their feelings of self-loathing and worthlessness is just plain awful Reinforcing that belief by telling them they are lazy good for nothings is hardly going to help. I don't go a day without someone (in person or in the media) telling me how awful children are today. I did not say that you should simply start telling them they are stupid / lazy etc and certainly not "good for nothing". I would certainly talk to them and go out of my way to help them if they put a little effort in but in doing so you have to be realistic. If an employer offers them a job or a training provider a place on a personal development scheme for example and they then can't be bothered to get up and grasp that chance (and yes I have known that happen) the fact is they will get the sack or lose the place etc and they need to realise that. Life is always going to be "hard" that way. As I said before if you want others to help you, you have to be willing to help yourself as well. Young men have probably gone through far worse in history - ie the horrors of war - than some of these "kids" who think they've got it hard "coz there's nowt to do" etc and if somebody doesn't teach this generation better then what will they teach their kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 If someone is told everyday how useless, horrible, unworthy, stupid etc etc they are they *will* believe it (my OH certainly did, and still does to some extent) once they believe that why on earth should be bothered to change. Just take the exam results for example, every year we are told the exams are getting easier and easier and are worthless - how soul destroying for those just taking them, in the end why should you bother?People will only ever live up to the expectations you have of them. Oh, I dunno - do you really think this has changed? All through school I remember articles about my agegroup saying much the same thing - our exams were too easy, our behaviour was terrible, our knowledge was weak, bla bla bla. I think I was quite a naive child in some ways but I never believed that : it's so easily disprovable. Talk to an old person for 10 minutes about something like Biology or even History and swiftly you realised that a) their knowledge was way out of date and mostly wrong, and b) they didn't know anything like as much about it as they thought they did. And all those surveys on 'things kids know - did ANYone not lie on those? I'm sure everyone in my class did! As for the worstened behaviour thing : start thinking about it and it doesn't add up - *cough* punks *cough* mods and rockers *cough* flappers and cads *cough* apprentice riots in the 17th century... signed - a proud member of "the worst year we've ever had at this school!" One thing I can see a difference in, historically - and that's the backgrounds of today's adults. Most of today's adults have not experienced real horror or fear. They have grown up and lived in a country that on the whole has been blessed with peace and plenty for a lifetime. The war veterans are very old now, what's left of them. Perhaps our perspective on what's really scary has been adjusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khanu Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Oh, I dunno - do you really think this has changed? All through school I remember articles about my agegroup saying much the same thing - our exams were too easy, our behaviour was terrible, our knowledge was weak, bla bla bla. I would tentatively suggest that you weren't told this by your parents from a very young age, and then have it reinforced from others. I remember being in "the worst year ever" but I was also told that I was bright, funny, could do anything I wanted by my parents. Many children don't get that at all - ever. I think you are right about there always having been problems. i remember a documentary about kids in Victorian times (I think) they had pictures of lines of boys swearing and gesturing to the camera and acting very much like the "kids today". I doubt the reasons behind the behaviour has changed much either......... I wonder if it all seems worse because of media coverage - it seems more prevalent than it really is? I've seen threads on here about how people were surprised by the good behaviour of teenagers they met etc. Is it the medias portrayal of groups of hoodies that has changed peoples view and made them see children as nothing more than a problem to society? I remember going out as a group when I was a teenager - we even drank in the park, but never caused any trouble - much like most teen-aged groups probably now. Not to say there aren't behavioural problems with children now - but I don't think historically it has changed much. And I really do feel that much of it is ultimately caused by poor self-esteem. You need to build that first before you can expect them to make changes to their lives. You need them to believe that they are worth it.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishPastry Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Listen to Khanu, she is a wise woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khanu Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 As I can't edit: Just wanted to add that when my younger sister and I were growing up we were told by my parents (and everyone we met were told too) that i was the clever one, my sister the pretty one. We still believe that today and it has shaped our lives quite dramatically. My sister dropped out of education believing she could never do as well as me (she is just as intelligent as me and has exam results that most would kill for). I followed an education that I didn't really want to do as it was expected of me - and I believed it was all I could do. Whilst many people would love my career and the life it affords me (I realise that) I hate it and feel trapped and feel nothing but resentment now that I have missed out on a large portion of what could have been had I not just believed those few words. I know my sister feels exactly the same as we spoke about it not so long ago. What a waste.... I can't imagine just how worse it would have been had we been told we were worthless.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 I would tentatively suggest that you weren't told this by your parents from a very young age, and then have it reinforced from others.I remember being in "the worst year ever" but I was also told that I was bright, funny, could do anything I wanted by my parents. Many children don't get that at all - ever. But that is surely a family issue, rather than an issue of news reports or wider society? I hope you are wrong that 'most' children have parents that don't praise and support them. I don't know many children, but those I do know have parents who are very proud of them, which is lovely to see. I taught for a couple of years, and I can only remember having one student who was having problems because she needed more support and less judgement from her parents. She was Korean, poor girl, and quite bright, but what her mother wanted of her would have taxed a genius, and she had no confidence at all. I did, however, teach a number of kids who would in my view have benefited from slightly less uncritical support from their parents. Sometimes support is less about 'my son's so clever' and more about 'clever or not, you are not going to hand THAT in as homework!' Or even just 'have you done your homework? Show me, so I know you've done it'! I was threatened with a snooker cue by one lad who I would guess had not previously in his whole life been told 'no'. Bright kid, but my goodness, what a complete tit he was growing up to be. If he'd been a puppy I'd have told his parents to consider NILIF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 (Sorry, I should have made it clear I don't think she was a 'poor girl' because she was Korean, but because she had only moved to the UK 2 years before sitting A levels designed for native English language speakers, which she wasn't. She was trying to take tough exams in a foreign language while living in a strange land with a quite alien culture. Oh, and I was teaching her History: not the easiest subject if you have no background knowledge on European history at all. Poor kid. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greys mum Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 I'm not saying that there no yobs/gangs. But why is it that the media seems to get so much joy at reporting it? If it isn't bad news they are not interested. Most children don't seem to be able to amuse themselves, or have the imagination that we had as children. It doesn't make them bad, just bored. I'm teaching my grand-daughter how to play ball against the wall. She is 8 and didn't know how. When was the last time you read, or heard on the news about the normal, happy, productive teenagers? I get fed up with them all being tarred with same brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kats inc Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 in short, it's simple, it's the society that make parents go out to work and not have any time to bring up their kids properly ,and Im speaking in general here,not those wonderfull mums and dads who magane do do a great job at both Most of the terrible parenting I see is by parents that don't work though.I've already talked on here of the father of several kids by several women that spends his days in the cafe next door to my office wearing his t shirt emblazoned with 'lazy and proud'. I've already talked about the 3 year old brought for a developmental check by her parents,when brought in I was told she would fail *laugh laugh* because she was 'fcuking stupid'.The same father,in his house cuddling the very pretty Pears soap type daughter telling her how beautiful she was whilst the less attractive daughter sits on the floor and he says to her....infront of me (I was so gobsmacked) 'not like you you fcuking ugly little b*tch'. This is what parenting is like these days for many children,it's the sad reality of what I and my colleagues see day in,day out.We deal with the results when we sit on our antisocial behaviour group.Here's the result of it I saw on the BBC local news page earlier today.I bet I can name exactly who has done this Racist grafitti link Kelly I agree with you 110% in what you have said.Low self esteem as a result of cr*p parenting.It's a cyclical thing and sadly it will go on and on repeating itself.I've only been in this job 15 years and I'm seeing it already Well done to C for achieving all he has as it takes guts and determination to fight your way past the mess a parent can make of your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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