neplusultra Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 I wonder if anyone out there can help me with a rather peculiar behavioural trait? Rupert, our Oldie wh fox terrier (see rehoming stories number 76) circles round me, when we set off for a walk, and tries to bite my wellington boot. He also occasionally makes an attacking lunge at Scooter, the other terrier. Both of them bark for the first 100 yds or so but then it all calms down and they get on with the serious business of the walk. (I think Scooter only barks as a defence mechanism as he is a bit in awe of Rupert who is older, wiser, has been here longer and, most important, is bigger) Just occasionally, Rupert rushes at a cyclist/motorcyclist and has twice bitten (quite gently) the rider (The Ark did warn us that he did this). We got in a very nice bloke who used to train police dogs to come and advise, particularly about biting cyclists as that was the more serious problem, and he brought his bike and we kept confronting R with it, who eventually lost interest, but I think that may have been because he was bored rather than cured (also, he seemed very subdued for the rest of the day having been bossed around for an hour and a half). Although this chap was very impressive and knowledgable, I think he was used to the mind of a GSD and didn't know as much about terriers. Anyway, it isn't a terribly serious problem as I can always call Rupert to me when I see trouble looming - he is very good about this now - and I can always buy another pair of wellington boots. But I would very much like to know what it is all about and why he does it. One interesting thing is that when I set off the other day, just the two of us (he was going for a hairdo in the local village) there was absolutely no fuss at all, so it must be something to do with Scooter. All opinions gratefully received Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoT Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 (edited) Hi there stranger! It's not just terriers: two of our collie crosses bark excitedly and jump and bite at each other as we are setting off for walks. I think it is just excitement. As for cyclists - a lot of dogs seem to dislike them intensely. Murphy, our Collie x GSD, is terrible if he sees a cyclist or jogger and has been close to taking a big chunk out of a passing leg a couple of times. If we see one on the horizon we grab him quickly and put him on the lead. Terriers are very excitable dogs with a lust for life. After an hour or two in the company of my mum's two terriers I feel a bit like this: Not been much help there have I? Edit to say: this is a link to Rupert - the dog in question! Edited June 7, 2007 by JoT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fee Posted June 7, 2007 Report Share Posted June 7, 2007 He's lovely, and sounds a real character I don't know if he's toy oriented, but if so you could try to get him to play with ball-on-a-rope similar toy as you walk along so he can jump and nip at that instead of your feet. I don't know what to suggest about the cyclists, but It might be a good idea to copy this onto the Training/Behaviour section of the board, as some of the people who could give good advice may not see it here. Tbh if it was me I'd be inclined to pop a muzzle on him anywhere with bikes around - he doesn't sound very 'dangerous' but unfortunately if he nipped a child it could get him into trouble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACKYSIAN Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 He sounds like a fantastic character!! I have the same problems with Sidney (Standard Poodle x JR! ) so I have to make sure he has a toy at all times, otherwise he will nip the other dogs and will drive me insane with jumping and barking!! He will also chase (and bite if given the chance) any cyclist or joggers. Luckily I live very remote and usually walk on cliff tops or beachs so rarely see them but as his recall is excellent and his ball obsession so massive I find it easy to distract him if I do spot one!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neplusultra Posted June 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Many thanks for advice Jo, Fee and Jacky. I had never come across this sort of thing with dogs I have owned before, so it is sort of a relief to hear that other people have the same problem. I don't think toys would distract him as, although he likes them when he is bored, they come quite far down his list of interests, with walks way ahead of anything else. And I would be rather reluctant to put a muzzle on him as he pants immediately when he gets excited and I think he might explode if he couldn't open his mouth properly. I am not so worried about him biting a child as he is very gentlemanly about picking his targets and doesn't go for anything defenceless - if PV, the Chihuahua, decides he wants to come on the walk, Rupert never terrorises him, only me and Scooter. And we, also, are out in the sticks and rarely come across other people when walking. I have a feeling that, if I could stop him barking, the problem might be solved, and I wonder about putting one of those collars on him before we go out, either the ones that squirt citronella or, someone has suggested, one that gives a mild electric shock - I know he would hate the latter as he once blundered into an electric fence when he was chasing a rabbit, he made a huge fuss and was upset for hours afterwards. I think they are quite expensive so I would like to be sure they would work before shelling out. Any further thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanrossscot Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Many thanks for advice Jo, Fee and Jacky. I had never come across this sort of thing with dogs I have owned before, so it is sort of a relief to hear that other people have the same problem. I don't think toys would distract him as, although he likes them when he is bored, they come quite far down his list of interests, with walks way ahead of anything else. And I would be rather reluctant to put a muzzle on him as he pants immediately when he gets excited and I think he might explode if he couldn't open his mouth properly. I am not so worried about him biting a child as he is very gentlemanly about picking his targets and doesn't go for anything defenceless - if PV, the Chihuahua, decides he wants to come on the walk, Rupert never terrorises him, only me and Scooter. And we, also, are out in the sticks and rarely come across other people when walking. I have a feeling that, if I could stop him barking, the problem might be solved, and I wonder about putting one of those collars on him before we go out, either the ones that squirt citronella or, someone has suggested, one that gives a mild electric shock - I know he would hate the latter as he once blundered into an electric fence when he was chasing a rabbit, he made a huge fuss and was upset for hours afterwards. I think they are quite expensive so I would like to be sure they would work before shelling out. Any further thoughts? NEVER, NEVER, NEVER a shock collar - they are EVIL things!! Sorry to be so vehement but they are, besides which if you shocked him at the wrong time he could decide it was one of your dogs that caused him pain and attack/kill it (it has been known to happen). Why on earth would you want to cause him pain? A proper fitted muzzle would allow him to pant and drink water without problems and, introduced properly, shouldn't cause problems. You could use it only at times when you can't see things coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fee Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Have to agree, you'll find shock collars are very unpopular with most people here, as they so easily can do more harm than good and are very distressing and uncomfortable for the dog (despite the way they are marketed ). Personally I'm not keen on using any 'aversive' techniques (such as spray collars etc). A lot of barking has an element of nervousness to it, so anything which punishes the dog could make things worse. The collar would also be triggered if one of the other dogs barked, which would be very confusing and worrying for your little lad. Have you tried clicker training with him at all? A lot of bright lively dogs respond brilliantly to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Totally agree on what other have said about those type of collars. I have the same problem re barking with our oldie Srcuff (a terrier x or so it says in his adoption paper). As soon as Scruff is out of the door he just barks, the most awful bark. Honestly they way he barks it is like if someone is killing him instead all we are doing is taking him for a walk, this goes on for a good 10 minutes sometimes more and then he settles down and he is good as gold on his way back. We have tried walking Scruff on his own but it doesn't make any difference he still barks. Scruff is as good as gold in the house he never makes a sound but as soon as he goes out even in the garden he just barks non stop. Sometimes he just stands there in the middle of the garden and just barks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neplusultra Posted June 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Many thanks, 'aversive' collar techniques have been firmly crossed off the agenda and I will look into the possibility of doing some clicker training with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoT Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 (edited) Shock collars are horrible things. I suspect you realised that, Diane! But when someone recommends something and you don't know much about it it can be easy to be persuaded. Paul's mum mentioned that she knew someone that had one for their dog and she was thinking of getting one for hers. She couldn't understand why I was so upset and angry at her! Clicker training does seem to be very effective, although I must admit I'm not a training expert at all. My dogs all seem to have been fairly well trained in their past lives, so I haven't really had to try hard with any of them. I'm quite a soft mum though and they do get away with things that they perhaps shouldn't. Some molehills have appeared in our garden and so Roxanne is currently digging up molehills and spending 12 hours a day in the garden on molewatch. She's absolutely obsessed with it and won't even leave the moles alone to come and eat her meals. She's not a good eater at the best of times but this is getting beyond a joke now. If we make her come inside she takes herself upstairs in a huff, sulks and still refuses to eat. Blummin' collies! Edited June 9, 2007 by JoT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neplusultra Posted June 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 No, I really had no idea about them, Jo, and the friend who made the suggestion, who had no direct experience herself, is the greatest dog lover ever and would never harm a fly; she thought they produced a mildly uncomfortable feeling which would annoy the dog to the extent that it would not repeat the action. I too am not really a training-type person; I don't go in much for ordering them about and they do pretty much as they choose. I'm sure Rupert will be excellent at clicking, but I fear that I may be found sadly wanting. That is probably the nub of the problem, me not being a good pack leader. But I shall do my best and have already bookmarked various clicking aids on Ebay. However, Rupert was a model of good behaviour on today's walk, hardly barked at all, and took no notice of a cyclist speeding past. I suspect he may know that his hooliganism has been discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoT Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 I suspect you may be right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACKYSIAN Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Just in case you are thinking of it...my next door neighbour bought a collar that gives out a high pitch sound that is supposed to be so only the dog can hear and it deters them from barking!!!!!!!!!!!! Well lets just say you can hear it and it doesn't deter them at all!! Her little jr x chi just barks louder so she can hear herself over the squeak..all you can hear is yap yap...squeak..yap yap...squeak!! On shock collars...my friend who owns a farm bought one for their dogs because he kept leaving their land. I suggested that he tried it on himself before putting it on their young dog....needless to say it didn't get put on the dog after he tried it!!!!!! (And it was extreamly funny because his wife got hold of the remote and his son held him down so he couldn't get it off!!!! One lesson learnt! ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neplusultra Posted June 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Point taken, many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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