kats n greys Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I could understand if you forgot for a few seconds/minutes- " you arrived in work and suddenly realised that you hadn't dropped the baby off at creche etc." What I can't understand is forgetting them for 5+ hours, there has to be something else going on- post natal depression or something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathyw Posted June 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Two stories of mothers who hurt their children. A woman had three small children who all said she loved dearly then one child got cancer and later died. This mother then went on to kill 9 children that she gave birth to. At first the authorities thought it was a genectic problem that was killing her babies but then a child she adopted died. She was always alone when the child stopped breathing. They said that she got so much attention when her first child died that she wanted to keep reliving it, but another 'expert'said that quite possibly the death of the first child was so traumatic for her that she didn't feel she had a right to be a mother as she could'nt save her child and so killed each one as the feeling took over her, some lived longer but the youngest was three months old and her name was TammyLynne. Small Sacrifices is the book all about it. A different kind of mother. This one also had three small children, a job and a lover. Her lover wanted her but would not take on her children. Her solution, she took the children for a drive one night and shot them. She killed one, one was paralysed and the other was left with severe injuries. She said they had been held up on a road by two men. She thought all the children were dead. But two survived and told what happened. She was not suffering from anything other than loving a man more than her children. Not all mothers love their own children as you mothers do and some put lots of other things in front of their children. I am in no way saying these two babies died because their mothers wanted it to happen, but for some mothers, the child is a burden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckey-lee Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 I just wanted to add that I didn't say that all mums who work are bad mums and every mum should stay at home all day,sometimes there is no other choice, I just cant understand mums who put their children in a nursery for a 9-5(or longer) job only to then complain when their kids grow up to be 'brads' or whatever problems occur, or even worse ,something happens to their child. And yes, I do understand that quality is better then quantity,believe me ,been there got the t-shirt but where is the balance? I mean,you cant put enough quality in say an hour a day surely? I am still convinced tho that it's better for children if they can stay at home for those very important (if not fundamental) first years of their life.Maybe it's cause Im Dutch and just really noticed the difference in the upbring and importance of our future-generation when I moved here . still,its only my personal opinion and everybody has a right to their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooandboo Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 I am still convinced tho that it's better for children if they can stay at home for those very important (if not fundamental) first years of their life.Maybe it's cause Im Dutch and just really noticed the difference in the upbring and importance of our future-generation when I moved here . still,its only my personal opinion and everybody has a right to their own Not just because you're Dutch, I feel exactly the same way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasta Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Dutch police spokesman Mauro Manfredi said: "This has been a grievous blow for everybody at the school. We regard it as an accident." This is the part of the statement that made me shake my head in wonder.... It was an accident that a stressed mother left her child to die in a car, but if the same stressed mother/teacher had 'accidently' hurt a child in her class she would be is soooo much trouble...... Just for the record, I am a working mother with 2 kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 I just wanted to add that I didn't say that all mums who work are bad mums and every mum should stay at home all day,sometimes there is no other choice, I just cant understand mums who put their children in a nursery for a 9-5(or longer) job only to then complain when their kids grow up to be 'brads' or whatever problems occur, or even worse ,something happens to their child. And yes, I do understand that quality is better then quantity,believe me ,been there got the t-shirt but where is the balance? I mean,you cant put enough quality in say an hour a day surely? I am still convinced tho that it's better for children if they can stay at home for those very important (if not fundamental) first years of their life.Maybe it's cause Im Dutch and just really noticed the difference in the upbring and importance of our future-generation when I moved here . still,its only my personal opinion and everybody has a right to their own I'm English & whilst I've been called sexist for it (not so I also believe a parent, upto them to decided which) should stay with the child where possible. I disagree with Govt pressure to get single Mums back to work. I also think that priorities have to be considered & don't necessarily agree with thewe can't afford not to argument usually used. Personally I'd rather my child (if I had any) was well cared for & knew they were loved than that we had the latest electrical fad, expensive holidays every year, designer label fashions, new cars etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooandboo Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 This is the part of the statement that made me shake my head in wonder.... It was an accident that a stressed mother left her child to die in a car, but if the same stressed mother/teacher had 'accidently' hurt a child in her class she would be is soooo much trouble...... Just for the record, I am a working mother with 2 kids. Being an *accident* in their eyes absolves them of any part in it & the pressure they put on their staff - when I was told I would have to return full time and do a course after having Ceri I was made to feel very much that my child would have to be very low on my list of priorities if I was to do my job properly in the eyes of my employers. We live pretty much hand to mouth but my conscience is clear where Ceri is concerned & he's adamant that he'd rather have me looking after him than holidays abroad - that's enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathyw Posted June 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Being an *accident* in their eyes absolves them of any part in it & the pressure they put on their staff - when I was told I would have to return full time and do a course after having Ceri I was made to feel very much that my child would have to be very low on my list of priorities if I was to do my job properly in the eyes of my employers. We live pretty much hand to mouth but my conscience is clear where Ceri is concerned & he's adamant that he'd rather have me looking after him than holidays abroad - that's enough for me. And he will retain the memories of the times spent with his Mum when he is a Grandfather himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasta Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 I should have added that I am a lucky working mum, I work school hours only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheryl33 Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 I am amazed at the draconian point of view 'mothers should stay at home with their babies', absolutely amazed. I grew up with a dad in the army and my brother away at boarding school for 7 years. Majority of the time it was just me and my mum and she worked full time, with me going to a child minder after school. Does that make my mum bad? i've turned out ok? My best friend is 23 and a single mum to my two year old godson. She receives no financial help from his father, so should she sit on her backside all day and claim benefits? Cos that is what she will have to do to support her son if she doesnt work. She, like the rest of us, has a house and bills and food to pay for and I have nothing but the upmost respect for her because she works full time, runs a house and brings up her lovely little boy. He goes to nursery 3 days a week and then to his grandmothers for the other two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslass Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 I am amazed at the draconian point of view 'mothers should stay at home with their babies', absolutely amazed. I grew up with a dad in the army and my brother away at boarding school for 7 years. Majority of the time it was just me and my mum and she worked full time, with me going to a child minder after school. Does that make my mum bad? i've turned out ok? My best friend is 23 and a single mum to my two year old godson. She receives no financial help from his father, so should she sit on her backside all day and claim benefits? Cos that is what she will have to do to support her son if she doesnt work. She, like the rest of us, has a house and bills and food to pay for and I have nothing but the upmost respect for her because she works full time, runs a house and brings up her lovely little boy. He goes to nursery 3 days a week and then to his grandmothers for the other two. Last part first. I don't think anyone has said that all mothers are able to stay home with their babies. I think some of us may feel it's a good thing for the baby if they do, but people like your friend have little choice. As for your mother - and mine, come to that (mine also worked full-time from my early childhood) - of course she isn't bad. I think I might want to ask my own mother why she bothered, though. I always felt "packed off" to other people. Nowadays, there isn't much excuse for having babies you don't have time for - and in my own mum's case, she was an assertive independent woman who ruled the roost in our house, so she certainly wasn't forced into motherhood by some overbearing male. I'm all for women having choice and I certainly don't think women should be chained to the kitchen. However, I think what some of us are saying is that there is an issue over the reasons for having children in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 I am amazed at the draconian point of view 'mothers should stay at home with their babies', absolutely amazed. I grew up with a dad in the army and my brother away at boarding school for 7 years. Majority of the time it was just me and my mum and she worked full time, with me going to a child minder after school. Does that make my mum bad? i've turned out ok? My best friend is 23 and a single mum to my two year old godson. She receives no financial help from his father, so should she sit on her backside all day and claim benefits? Cos that is what she will have to do to support her son if she doesnt work. She, like the rest of us, has a house and bills and food to pay for and I have nothing but the upmost respect for her because she works full time, runs a house and brings up her lovely little boy. He goes to nursery 3 days a week and then to his grandmothers for the other two. I don't feel I'm draconian in believing that a parent should look after their child until they are old enough to go to school. I wouldn't say it made you Mum or Dad "bad" either - though as was probably clear from what was said earlier but you've chose to ask anyway I would say honestly that I consider it misguided to send any child to boarding school. As for Child Minders after school it's not quite the full time arrangement we started commenting upun but I'd personally still rather that one parent worked part time. As for your best friend I wouldn't personally criticse her if she was claiming benefits to care for her child - and I don't think that constitutes "sitting on her backside all day" as you put it. The biggest issue I saw here however was not whether she worked or claimed benefits but that "She receives no financial help from his father". Far from harassing single Mums to go back to work in my view the State ought to be bringing men like this to book and forcing them to pay for the Children they produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kats inc Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Cheryl I think the confusion lies around the fact that both these women whose babies died have said the stress of their jobs and pressures they felt they were under due to work were the reason they left their babies in the car. I think posters were expressing a sadness that society today expects women to work and it is a choice women can feel forced to make.Perhaps sometimes that choice is forced on us by the high cost of living and by the dreaded 'must have' consumerism we are all brainwashed with. I've said I think quality beats quantity hands down anyway so people like your friend are perfectly capable of being just as good a mum as someone who is at home all day IThe biggest issue I saw here however was not whether she worked or claimed benefits but that "She receives no financial help from his father". Far from harassing single Mums to go back to work in my view the State ought to be bringing men like this to book and forcing them to pay for the Children they produce. Indeed.There would be some very poor men in my area Although most of them don't work so who pays then? I know of one with 5 children by 5 different women He's on benefits.Well he does have an income but it's an illegal one so that's of no use in court. I think most Dads do pay and I for one was glad to see the back of the CSA as it was a one huge c*ck up after another but I'd like to see a better way of sorting out these young men that go round indiscriminantly fathering children without a care in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pboae Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 When I was a tiny baby, my Mum forgot me and left me outside a shop (obviously I don't remember this). It was inside a shopping mall, she went into a store with my older sister who was an extremely difficult/demanding child, she played up in the shop, Mum went out a different door and took her straight home. I was there for a few hours, before my Dad came home and asked where I was. Mum ran back in a panic, and I was still there, asleep. No-one else had even noticed. Mum *may* have had PND at the time, she was almost certainly exhausted as sis barely slept, and then she had me to deal with too. She was a SAHM (and didn't go back to work until I was about 10, and then not until my Gran came to live with us). OK, the situation isn't quite the same, we didn't have a car, and who would leave a baby on it's own outside a shop now? But that's because times of changed, the basic mistake was still the same. She forgot she had me with her. I know she still feels guilty about it now, although it has become a bit of a running joke in our family. It's all very well saying 'how could she?' but people do make mistakes like this, but luckily most of the time there is no harm done. I've shut a dog out in the garden by accident before now, is that so different? I've accidentally left the hob on and gone out as well. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have done those things in my life, but it only takes 1 occasion for it to turn into a tragedy. Being a working mother has nothing to do with it, it's just human fallibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocoa Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 When I was a tiny baby, my Mum forgot me and left me outside a shop (obviously I don't remember this). It was inside a shopping mall, she went into a store with my older sister who was an extremely difficult/demanding child, she played up in the shop, Mum went out a different door and took her straight home. I was there for a few hours, before my Dad came home and asked where I was. Mum ran back in a panic, and I was still there, asleep. No-one else had even noticed. Mum *may* have had PND at the time, she was almost certainly exhausted as sis barely slept, and then she had me to deal with too. She was a SAHM (and didn't go back to work until I was about 10, and then not until my Gran came to live with us). OK, the situation isn't quite the same, we didn't have a car, and who would leave a baby on it's own outside a shop now? But that's because times of changed, the basic mistake was still the same. She forgot she had me with her. I know she still feels guilty about it now, although it has become a bit of a running joke in our family. It's all very well saying 'how could she?' but people do make mistakes like this, but luckily most of the time there is no harm done. I've shut a dog out in the garden by accident before now, is that so different? I've accidentally left the hob on and gone out as well. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have done those things in my life, but it only takes 1 occasion for it to turn into a tragedy. Being a working mother has nothing to do with it, it's just human fallibility. could not have said it better ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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