phoenix21 Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Ok, well comments at work today made me think what i can actually do to make phoenix dog friendly. Background info....she has always been well socialised with dogs and gets on fine with our dog molly (they have never had a squabble or fight). As a pup she wasnt bothered about other dogs around her wanting to play she just wanted to play with humans and have human company. As she got older (and i think this is where her agressive behaviour starts) and she came into season, whenever i took her out (even just to the garden), there would be at least one dog there day and night if not 2 or three....we lived in a city and people around us assumed it was fine to leave their dogs out wandering )...these dogs would sniff her follow her around etc so she couldnt even go for a wee and then she would snap at them....not full on growling etc just snapping. She was then spayed and i began work at stables where she came to work with me....at this point she was still fine with other dogs. Then one dog took a dislike to her, an alsation, who got off one day and ran to her whilst she was tied up and grabbed hold of her back and wouldnt let go, i picked phoenix up and he still had hold. After that incident she started growling and snapping when another dog growled at her to defend herself...she had 2 fights with the managers dog (the other dog had her pinned down and phoenic came out of that with a broken tooth and puncture wounds)..the thing is she doesnt back down she doesnt go for the throat or anything like that, its just a lot of noise. Now she gets on fine with 2 dogs there who she has known for ages, she has had a minor scrap with one of them but that was over food and they get on fine now. A new lass is now living in the house at the stables and she has 2 dogs. the dogs were in the house today so i let phoenix off at lunch as i always do. Halfway through the new lass let her dogs out without us knowing, i turn round and phoenix is sniffing at one (the one thats unfriendly!) so i grab phoenix and pick her up and just eat my dinner again, i then put phoenix on the floor and the other lass just lets her dogs run up to her so phoenix is there growling and snapping at them and i end up having to put her back in the kennel again. So then i get all this cr*p from a few workmates that phoenix is untrained and should go on dog borstal blablabla - i just dont know what people expect me to do - How can i socialise her with other dogs when i cant trust her not to start a fight? She is 100% with molly and id say 90% trustworthy with her 2 doggy friends at work. I know sometimes it it my fault because sometimes on walks she will be saying hello to another dog and i will panick and shout for her and put her on her lead, and i think me panicking makes her think that there is something there that she should be worried about as well. She is better meeting other dogs off lead i have found, on lead 99% of the time she will snap at them... Sorry this is long but its getting me down as i love my dog to bits and i hate people saying bad things about her...at home she is so well behaved as well. (ps sorry if this is in the wrong section - please move to behaivour if you think it to be more appropriate ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReikiAnge Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Have moved it in here as I think it's more likely to get seen by those most able to help with behaviour etc Not sure what to suggest personally, but it sounds as though her issues stem from other dogs launching themselves/starting on her, so seems a tad unfair of your colleagues to make the comments they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safneo Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 If your dog has has a 'problem' with other dogs it will usually show itself more on lead than off. When offlead the dog has the option of flight rather than fight.I can't offer a long time solution but it can be done. Have you thought about asking the new girl if she will walk her dogs with pheonix onlead to get to know each other. If you start by parallel walking them a fair distance apart so that they can see each other but are not reacting, then over a couple of weeks make the distance smaller when Pheonix seems more relaxed. I did this with Natpants and Purdie so that Miss P and Neo could get used to each other. We had them sitting together in no time It doesnt mean that they will be best of friends but can learn to ignore each other. I attend workshops with a well known aggression specialist and she has rehabilitated many 'aggressive' dogs to the point of being able to 'cope' with being in doggy company. Even if not being mates with them. Maybe its a good time to get a behavourist in to assess her and see her behaviour around other dogs so that a specific programme can be designed for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix21 Posted October 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 i thought that. am just looking up behaviourists now,doesnt seem to be many in cumbria though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishPastry Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 the fact that you are tense can very well make her more aware or even nervous of dogs. We have just been through a major socialisation-process with my gal Akita and Martins dog Lexus, both older females. Akita is not keen on females, and if we had aproached it with any kind of aversive training we would have never gotten to where we are now. Basically what we did was treat and praise over load. Are you familiar with the term calming signals? It is body language dogs use to comunicate to others that they don't wish for conflicts. We praised and treated for all calming signals, praised and treated for them sniffing to the same thing, praised and treated for walking close to each other, praised and treated for walking past each other, praised and treated for basically anything we could see to praise and treat for, and the dogs made a positive association with each other. In your case, if you get nervouse about her making contact to other dogs, instead of pulling her away, you could praise and treat her for holding eye-contact with you as you walk past (this requires some training) or praise and treat as you walk past and Maddie doesn't react to the other dog, if she does meet a dog and is good about it, priase and treat!! (if she is by then familiar with this, she should break contact to get back to you for her treat, and you get what you want without the panicky feeling kicking in). Basically exchange your nervous reactions with a good association, it gets easier with practice! It can be quite fun actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix21 Posted October 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 ok thanks is this on lead that i would do it? if she is onlead she tends to just snap straight away. like today off lead she will sniff them face to face, then decide weither to react or just run off and do something else. i will go armed with biscuits to work next time, this is where she meets most other dogs - its hard at work as she is so excited and hyper that she will only concentrate on biscuits/food for a second before running off or barking etc i will ask the lass who has the new dogs if she doesnt mind working with me, she is very nice so hopefully she wont mind. do i say anything if she growls and snaps at the other dog or just take her away from the situation? thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishPastry Posted October 3, 2006 Report Share Posted October 3, 2006 Martin will answer you later, as he is much more skilled than I, (he may even correct my post ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffymonkey Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Have you thought about asking the new girl if she will walk her dogs with pheonix onlead to get to know each other. If you start by parallel walking them a fair distance apart so that they can see each other but are not reacting, then over a couple of weeks make the distance smaller when Pheonix seems more relaxed. I did this with Natpants and Purdie so that Miss P and Neo could get used to each other. We had them sitting together in no time It doesnt mean that they will be best of friends but can learn to ignore each other. My Maddie's mostly really good with other dogs, but OH's dad's BC is very fear agressive . He has snapped and growled at her since she was a pup, and I was very worried about introducing them now she's more mature, and not as submissive as she was as a pup/teenager. I posted, and was advised o try parallel walking and circling, and it worked like an absolute dream - Murphy still grizzled a bit, but with some work (a few hours a day for 3 days), we were eventually able to let them off lead together! Maddie learnt to give him his space, and that there was no way in hell he was gonna play with her, and he realised that she wasn't something to be too frightened of, bless him So, yeah, I'd recommend it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffymonkey Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Ps. Give the bootiful Pheonix a big snuggle from me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantan Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Hi Vicky I've just spotted this. There are behavourists here in Cumbria but there is one close to you that you should avoid at all costs. Will PM you. If you want to meet up anytime to walk with George and Archie we'd be up for that Marion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muriel Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 (edited) In addition to behaviourist, Bach Flower Remedies would help you BOTH release those fears, as it sounds like you could be making her react with your fear. I'd go with Star of Bethlehem for trauma, Rock Rose for terror, Mimulus for all known fears and Aspen for anxiety. 4 drops 4 times daily for each of you for a month each and see how you're both doing, and take it from there. They gently release the fears. From chemist/health food shops. If you do go for a behaviourist, make sure they are APDT trained and use only kind methods, any shouting, pulling etc and walk away! Edited November 17, 2006 by Muriel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsay Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 (edited) i thought that. am just looking up behaviourists now,doesnt seem to be many in cumbria though There's a very good one called David Ryan (see www.apbc.org.uk website) To me, it seems as if she was quite normal until the very shocking (for her and you) situations with the work gsd and the other dog too. I'm not surprised both of you then started to react. And this other girl, letting her dogs out without checking - for goodness' sake, if her dog is unfriendly then she has no right to be annoyed. Nor do any of the other peeps there, they seem to be distinctly lacking in both empathy and animal/canine knowledge. The first rule is management so some rules/boundaries etc need to be worked out with work folk. Dogs don't need to be put in stresful situations, nor be put in situations where they will practice their behaviour. Martin will I'm sure give you some more excellent advice Good luck and don't let the others at work get you down with their ignorance. Lindsaay x Edited November 17, 2006 by Lindsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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