Fiona711 Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 So a nasty vicious big dog on a lead attacks a dog that approached off lead and everyone is saying to report the dog to the dog warden ? I am really sorry your dog was hurt but just for a moment please think about the circumstances , your dog was off lead and approached this dog the owners had it onlead when it attacked your dog and yet they are all things bad ? And the dog should be muzzled in a dog friendly place where people walk their dogs ? I find this so disheartening and really sad , i own giant breed dogs who are always on lead in a public place for their safety as i am very concious that due to the sheer size of them some people could be scared if they ran up to them barking. If i came on here and posted that one of my dogs had been attacked while on a lead by a strange dog running up to them would'nt you all be advising me to call the dog warden police etc as surely the offlead dog's owner was at fault for not having their dog under proper control in a public place ? I really do feel for you but you do realize that under the DDA you could be charged as our dog was not under your control ? If i was in the other owners shoes i am afraid you would really have a fight on your hands , regardless of what had happened before at the time your dog was attacked their dog was on lead and you allowed your dog to run up to theirs . I am really sorry if my post upsets you but i find it quite upsetting as a responsible owner who keeps my dogs on lead and under control that somebody that allowed their dog to run up to mine might feel the same way you do I am not sure if a strange dog ran at mine around a corner and startled them how they would react Akira would probably do nothing but bark but Storm might just have a go as he would probaly think he had to protect me so if Storm went for an offlead dog under the circumstances i would not expect to be slated on here if he did . Fiona xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reds Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 (edited) I did have the same sentiments Fiona as one of my pet hates is loose dogs running up to dogs on lead BUT it did sound as though Hobbes never actually approached the dog and was taken rather by surprise by his presence in the bushes. 'Knowing' Hobbes and his mum a tiny bit and reading the description, I don't think it was the case that Hobbes went up to an onlead dog. Even if he had, which I'm sure he didn't, a dog who reacts THAT aggressively should be muzzled anyway in my opinion. You can take it for granted that dogs will approach him in some way, shape or form. Edited January 28, 2007 by reds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muriel Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 What a fright for you all! As already said, Rescue Remedy for you all, a few drops on a treat or it can be rubbed in fur anywhere, but top of head between ears is a very good spot if it doesn't freak him - put it on your hand first as the dropper coming at them can scare them. If you have Homeopathic Arnica, preferably 30c, give him one an hour this evening and then 4 over the day tomorrow and then three a day for a few days. 6c would do if you haven't 30c. If you don't have any, it would be worth getting some tomorrow - chemist/health shop. It is great for any injury and also helps with shock. Sounds like you're doing the right stuff, keeping him quiet, calm, relaxed etc with lots of stroking and love. yep, ttouch is great, as is any gentle massage/stroking. Rubbing/stroking his ears all over would be good, you'll get all the right acupressure points at some point. Let us know how he is tomorrow and what the vet says. Sending masses of Reiki to you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amanda72 Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 So a nasty vicious big dog on a lead attacks a dog that approached off lead and everyone is saying to report the dog to the dog warden ? I really do feel for you but you do realize that under the DDA you could be charged as our dog was not under your control ? If i was in the other owners shoes i am afraid you would really have a fight on your hands , regardless of what had happened before at the time your dog was attacked their dog was on lead and you allowed your dog to run up to theirs . Fiona xx But the owners could not control their dog even though it was on a lead? And didn't she say that it was not the first attack that this dog had done? I can see your point, but the owners should of had more control over their dog which was on the lead... I think maybe this dog is too much for them, and they should think of either getting help in training it, or get a more controllable dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie No Dots Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Does sound like dog needs training and possibly muzzling. One point tho, (wich you wouldnt have known about , just a point on dogs behaviour) If it had a fight shortly before we dont know how that started and to turn and see another dog may have freaked the bulldog out. May not be an outright dog aggressive dog...dont know it isnt but it may not be. Anychance of catching owner and having a friendly word? Could be shes a bit lost? If she refuses to listen then dog warden ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted January 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 I think there are circumstances where dogs have a go at each other for whatever reason and then are so het up about it that they go for any dog as part of the excitement/ adrenalin, especially if there was no conclusion. I cannot say for sure that this dog is usually aggressive, it is highly possible it was 'just' the adrenalin of the moment or whatever that caused it to take it out on the next dog it saw. However, I would be interested to know how the young EBT is after it's attack as it did have some gaping wounds and hence will be asking the local vet whether it was in their care. Fiona, as to your post, I am normally all for 'blaming' the off lead dog owner and appreciate that in normal circumstances if a dog had run up to an on lead dog and been attacked you would have to ask the question didn't it ask for it to a certain degree. However, I think if you had read my post properly instead of jumping to conclusions and getting on the defensive without acknowledging what I was saying, you will see that in this case it was not Hobbes's fault. He walked past a bush, which they were for some reason standing behind, thereby impossible to see them from any direction, and the dog lunged at him and grabbed him. If I see an on-lead dog, I ALWAYS put mine on unless I know them and would have in this case if they had been visible. Another point to mention is that this dog was running around offlead when it attacked the puppy and was only put on lead to drag it off the terrified puppy. They were about to let the dog off again when it went for Hobbes - something which I for one would never do when dogs for whatever reason have literally just been in a fight. It was not necessarily their fault that they didn't know they couldn't be seen but if you have an injured, aggressive dog that you cannot even hold back on a lead without two of you pulling it that has just been in a fight you would not normally continue with the walk and let an injured dog leave with it's owners without asking if their dog is ok etc. there is an aggressive dog in the fields near me that has killed two dogs with exactly this sort of behaviour and the owners have been asked several times by the dog warden to muzzle it as well as lead it because it is so aggressive it has snapped it's lead to get at other dogs. There are certain situations where even if you do have an off lead dog running up to you/ past you/ near the people cannot control the on lead animal. The EBT was on a flimsy lead and straining to get a better grip. It took both of them to stop him from actually pinning Hobbes. You can think what you will - I have been extremely supportive of Deed not Breed and have nothing against any breed of dog. I also do right by other people and make sure my dogs are safe and well behaved. Any dog can attack if provoked/ upset etc but I would expect courtesy and sympathy if a dog had behaved towards mine as this one did. Having not been there you are entitled to think what you want, especially as you don;t know me or my dogs. But most of the dogs I know that were that aggressive (this was not scrapping, this was beyond annoyance/ dominating) were either muzzled or the owners walked them in plain sight of people, on lead and did not spend their walk lurking in bushes! I am more annoyed for the people who's puppy was savagely attacked and wounded as they got no apology and had a big vet's bill on their hands. the dogs were off lead in this instance and I believe it would not have been avoided if it had been on lead as the owners could not control it. for whatever reason, they should in honesty not be walking a dog that takes two of them to restrain and which gives no warnings to it's intentions before lunging at a dog. I am not upset by your post. There's always one who even when someone is upset and has had a huge shock and watched their dog nearly die WHATEVER the circumstances who will get self righteous, sanctimonious and jump instantly to the only possible explanation: That I have it in for certain breeds, that my dogs were off lead therefore in the wrong and that it is therefore actually not only my fault but that I don't deserve sympathy. And all this without even reading my post. I'd like to have your Xray vision skills as next time I might be able to see through the thick bushes at the dog about to lunge and grab my smallish dog out of nowhere. I would not mind if I had said Hobbes ran up for a sniff etc but I explained what happened and still got a post like that. Cheers. A dog that lunges at a dog on or off lead without warning and goes straight for the throat should be muzzled when in a busy woods with lots of dogs ESPECIALLY when there are 'blind spots'. End of. Thanks to everyone who was sympathetic. Hobbes is fast asleep now and seems ok. I hope the puppy is too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border collie Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Having been on a beach walk with hobbes and jo I can certainly attest that he is a real sweetie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiona711 Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 You obviously dont know me very well either as i am neither self righteous or sanctimonious i did say i was sorry your dog was hurt , and that i felt for you . No where did i say it was your fault or that you dont deserve sympathy , i hardly think i was on the defensive just putting accross another point of view . I dont have xray vision either but i would not let MY dogs run around a corner that i could not see around as you stated in your origional post or blind spots either , again that is my personal view in the case of my own dogs As i have said before on other threads , and i will say again in light of recent developments the onus is on us as responsible owners not to put our dogs in a position where they can be seen as out of control in a public place which is what i was trying to get you to understand that under the DDA you could find your self between a rock and a hard place as far as the dog warden is concerned i am sorry that you took that the wrong way , it just concerned me that maybe you did not realize that you could have problems there . I am as entitled to my opinion as anyone else is , i am however not going to get involved in a slagging match with you the only thing i will say is my post was my own opinion it has nothing to do with Deed Not Breed . Fiona xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundgirl Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 What an awful thing to happen - must have been absolutely terrifying for you As this dog has already attacked I can't believe that the owners haven't muzzled it The fact that they also didn't show any concern for the puppy that it attacked while off lead shows exactly what kind of people they are Whatever the circumstances I would be devastated if either of my two attacked and injured another dog Hope Hobbes heals well and quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonniebird Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 Poor Hobbes, get well soon, hope you`ll be OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted January 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 Perhaps it is stupid to try and describe an attack as words do not always get read in the same way by everyone and unless you were there (not you personally just anyone), it is never going to be clear how it happened/ what happened. Hobbes was at our heels, not running around like a mad thing and the dog was out of sight until we got round a corner, lunged at him, grabbed his throat without warning. My husband was next to Hobbes at the time, I was slightly behind with my Mum. They could not hold their on lead dog back and it had not given any warning that it was going to lunge. Now, if Hobbes had been on lead the exact same thing would have happened as the positioning and distance etc would have been the same. Admittedly, if he had been on lead, I would be able to say: Yes he was on lead but in this particular case it matters not a jot to me or the facts about this particular dog. The point is, they had no control over the dog off or onlead and it is carrying out unprovoked attacks on dogs passing by. I did not even have a go at them or threaten them or even imply anything at the time. My husband just wanted the dog to let go of my screaming, crying dog who had moments before been sniffing the bush he was snatched from. I am not reporting the incident to the dog warden because I want them in trouble - if I wanted that I'd go to the police - I am not the sort. I believe every dog owner will experience things and no matter how well trained your dogs are or how under control you think you have them, things happen because they are animals with instincts who might at some point do something unexpected. I would never rush and tell on someone because their dog had a go at mine - things happen. I am firstly concerned for the people who's dog was quite badly injured by a vicious off lead dog who I met and hope to be able to find out how they are but also I feel that a dog that attacks twice in a day for no reason without warning that takes two adults to hold back and even then it does not listen and cannot be controlled is dangerous. I have had dogs for a long time, as have most people on here and basically think there is a difference between a fight/ scrap and genuine dangerous aggression. I am sure you do too and I did not mean to sound quite so angry etc in my reply to you; it's difficult to firstly come across well when shaken/ angry/ upset and also because I was there and know what happened, it offended me because I know it was not a case of on lead vs off lead at all. It annoys me so much when I make an effort to put mine on lead and other people let theirs run up to anything. I usually put them on lead if a strange dog is off too... anyway, sorry if I was angry. Unless you were there, it's hard to describe/ understand exactly why them being in the bushes was bad and also how aggressive and out of control this dog actually was. I would always be the first to apologise if my dog had been in the wrong (well it;s the owner in the wrong) but in this case there was nothing I could have done as the dog was just aggressive and determined. Please lets just be relieved that no dog was killed and that we have this forum to comfort/ advise us. I did not mean to be so snappy - have had a bad day! Jo xxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix21 Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 If hobbes had been off lead away from you - the fact that they didnt even bother to apologise i think is awful. He doesnt sound like a dog that would bother another dog either so sounds unprovoked. Its happened to me before when i have had phoenix on a lead and an off lead dog has come up and bothered her so she has snapped at them - she hasnt actually ever had a fight with a dog whilst she has been onlead but i still apologise for her having a go (thats prob just me though - i apologise too much for my dog ) If my dog had just attacked another she would have been on the shortest lead possible and (as i understand they didnt see you till the last minute) but if i did see another dog coming i would take action to avoid the dogs making contact. I just think a little sense and courtesy could have gone a long way - offering to pay for the pups vet bills and apologising to you would have been good - particularly with all this breed nonsense - surely they would want to be good ambasaders for the breed - i must admit when im out with phoenix i dont ever think about how people percieve her due to her breed but i always try to be a responsible dog owner which they were not and you are. Hope hobbes is feeling a bit better this morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyM Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 Hi Jo - how is Hobbes this morning? I would definitely report the owners. I would imagine the dog warden would take it very seriously given there was more than one dog injured, and there were human injuries too. Owners like that give many of the best breeds a bad name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amanda72 Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 I hope Hobbes had a comfortable night.... I would definitely report the owners. I would imagine the dog warden would take it very seriously given there was more than one dog injured, and there were human injuries too. Owners like that give many of the best breeds a bad name. I totally agree!! It could have been a lot worse, so this needs to be kept an eye on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachelpirate Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 I understand Fiona's point and in most cases would agree, but as others have said it sounds like Hobbes was taken by surprise. Besides the fact that the bulldog should have been MUZZLED! I just can't comprhend it. They obviously know their dog can and will harm others, and if they know what he can do even on-lead then surely they are obligated to do that? I know from experience with Connie that you can't always trust other people's dogs not to run up and put themselves in danger, which is why she is muzzled even when she's on lead. I don't want my dog to hurt any other dogs, simple as that. People with agressive dogs have a responsibility not only to stop their own dogs getting into trouble, to other owners to stop them hurting their pets, and most of all to other owners of agressive dogs to show that there are some out there who can take the blame for their pets actions. If they think their dog could be dangerous to another dog, they should be doing everything in their power to stop that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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