agilitymad Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I was watching a program last night on the discovery channel about zoo's and it got me thinking! The zoo was breeding to many tigers and had to put hormone inplants into the lady tigers to stop this happening but in the wild some breeds of tigers are dieing out. I myself don't like zoos. we have a zoo near us called Marwell which i feel is not the best zoo around as the animals alway look bored and some of the inclosures are in need of updating and are on the small size. i don't believe that wild animals should have to live in these conditions. Iwould by far like to see animals being left in the wild or be reabilitated back into the wild which i know some zoos are trying to do. and with out zoos some animals would not be around today but is that just natures way. so what do you think of zoos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickychoo Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) We studied captive animals, breeding, their reaction to their enclosures etc. quite extensively at uni. And while in an ideal world, there would be no zoos, and yes, there are bad zoos; I feel on the whole that they are a positive force for conservation and education. It would be lovely if they weren't necessary, but we humans have prevented that and so need to try to clean up the mess we made as best we can. To be fair, in the last 100 years our attitudes to animals have changed quite incredibly. Remember the size of the elephant cage at London Zoo when it first opened? It could barely move, kept alone in its iron-barred enclosure. Now on the whole elephants have social groups and much more freedom in bigger enclosures. The best zoos have captive breeding programmes, participate in re-introduction schemes to repopulate areas with native species and have a good, solid ecucational programme to teach children (and adults) about the effects of man's interference on species all over the world. The problem with zoos is always the same though, money. Its very difficult to be a good zoo without money behind you. People bring in money and people want to see exotic and exciting animals. They're not bothered about your fab new endangered-nicaraguan-slug-breeding project. They want to see tigers and lions and elephants. So middle and small-size zoos (not all I might add) often have poor enclosures as they don't have the money to upgrade them so often. There are big money-ed zoos that have poor enclosures too I might add. Its the balance that is struck between the sake of the animal (who wants a big enclosure with hiding places) and the sake of the public - who fund the zoo and keep the animals there (who want to be able to see the animal and it not to be hiding away all day.) Edited for dodgy spacing and shocking grammar. Must go get coffee... Edited January 10, 2007 by wickychoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border collie Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hate them. Don't care if some animals become extinct, that is just nature. Even if it is our fault, cos we are actually part of nature. Don't care if I only ever see some animals on telly or in a book. I would rather they all stayed free than gave me entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricc Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I did a lot of work on the population genetics of Przewalskis horses, all in captivity with a half way re-introduction programme in France. Over 3 generations I found that there feet had changed signficantly and jaw sizes were reducing (due to different diet). An incredibly small gene pool had fixed deletirious lethal genes. One of the biggest reasons that animals have become endangered is because of habitat loss. Captive breeding programmes are producing animals with no safe long term habitat to return to, this goes for animals with small multi- creature ranges and even more so large territorial predators. I think zoos need to be more honest, and stop pretending that they are trying to save animals, many are just pays your money and ogle the poor creature with little chance of privacy etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I agree with Border Collie all the way. Especially these days when we get to see amazing footage of animals in the wild on TV. Zoos are a legacy of a past era which I feel will die out in time. People should not be encouraged to see animals as entertainment. Is childrens education really furthered by gawping at trapped animals in a cage, however big and posh that cage is? Conservation is best served by respecting the animal kingdoms right to have some space on this planet, even if it is highly valuable development land, and letting them get on with it. The most useful breeding program in terms of the environment would be one that controlled our own species population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix21 Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) erm having just written an essay on the benifits and drawbacks of protecting rare and declining species in zoos as opposed to preservation of wild pops for my conservation biology exam i will refrain from typing out my essay again lol!! In all i belive they can be useful for the protection of otherwise extinct species with the aim of reintroduction programmes but 2/3rd of species in zoos in the developed world are not threatened species. Captive breeding programmes are necessary. If we did not have zoos we would not have the reintroduction of many species - of which were extinct in the wild due to human actions. These include species such as the californian condor where san diego are very much involved in the reintroduction programme. Some scientists belive we are in the midst of a sixth mass extinction and increasing human populations are increasing pressures on the land/ecosystems. Although extinction rates have declined in the last 50 yrs there are still many many threatened species - many of which are large species that need large and stable environments to survive. Unless we can protect large areas at present for their survival zoos will continue. Zoos have changed greatly in the last 20 yrs and are much more focused on captive breeding programmes but obviously there are many drawbacks as well I am now beginning to type my essay out - i will stop now as i would rather forget exams!!!!! EXTINCTION - yes it is nature but the rate of extinction is 100 to 1000 times greater than the natural rate. There needs to be a balance between natural extinction and those caused by humans. Some species act as 'umbrellas' to other species and causing their extinction will cause a threat to other species and communities. the majority of extinctions have occured in the last 150 years and it is caused in the main by our overexploitation and persicution of species. Obviously all species threatened with extinction cannot be protected but i believe, like with climate change, it is our duty to do something about it. Edited January 10, 2007 by phoenix21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border collie Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Obviously all species threatened with extinction cannot be protected but i believe, like with climate change, it is our duty to do something about it. fair enuff but we are just a highly invasive species ourselves and once we have exploited our niche have got nowhere to go, serves us right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockergirl Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I agree with Phoenix, we are the cause of the majority of extinctions/threatened extinctions and therefore we should be part of the solution as well. We have a duty to do something about this and since it is all but impossible to entirely stop human expansion we need to do the 'next best thing' to prevent species from becoming extinct. The majority of extinctions we are seeing now are nothing to do with nature, they are purely the result of unnatural human activities - land clearance/slash and burn agriculture/quarrying/mining/expansion of towns and cities - and therefore it is down to us to do something to redress this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaine Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Hate them. Don't care if some animals become extinct, that is just nature. Even if it is our fault, cos we are actually part of nature. Don't care if I only ever see some animals on telly or in a book. I would rather they all stayed free than gave me entertainment. But, playing devils advocate slightly, what about cases where animals becoming extinct (or coming close to) is not 'just nature', but instead directly as a result of man destroying their natural habitat? (whihc I've just realised has already been said). I think there's a definite place for zoos with breeding programmes, and I've not been to a 'bad' one. Ones which are purely for human entertainment, bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border collie Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 But, playing devils advocate slightly, what about cases where animals becoming extinct (or coming close to) is not 'just nature', but instead directly as a result of man destroying their natural habitat? (whihc I've just realised has already been said). I think there's a definite place for zoos with breeding programmes, and I've not been to a 'bad' one. Ones which are purely for human entertainment, bad. ah yes, but man, ignorant beast, IS nature. And as Laura pointed out, our attempts to rectify the damage can go disastrously wrong. I sound evil I know and it wasn't how I used to think. But since doing an A level in human biology and the lecturer putting forward the idea that we are bound to do certain things because we are just another species, I have viewed it all a bit more cynically. We will all have vanished "soon" enough (compared with earths long existence) and it won't matter a hoot......or so I read recently. Dons tin hat. Oh, and I am not saying I am happy about it or that we are in the right to do these terrible destructive acts, I just don't think zoos are the way out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhound pal Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 I think zoos need to be more honest, and stop pretending that they are trying to save animals, many are just pays your money and ogle the poor creature with little chance of privacy etc. *Nodding in agreement* Edinburgh Zoo has all these captive breeding programmes and is allegedly a 'good' zoo. So how come the big cats pace back and forward and attack the glass? My oldest daughters words - 'concentration camp for animals' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix21 Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 . We will all have vanished "soon" enough (compared with earths long existence) and it won't matter a hoot......or so I read recently. Dons tin hat. but surely part of our conservation of these species in some part for our benefit. The extinction of a species can have knock on effects to the environment and balance of nature etc - we are another species but we are conscious of our actions and have the ability to do something about it. I know lets encourage the people who set their dogs on cats and kill them etc because heck what does it matter if all cats/dogs whatever are killed. Think about the preservation of big cats etc (many arent endangered i know) but if they were in serious decline and there were no zoos to support reintroduction programmes - that would lead to a serious decline in the tourism industry in places like kenya and tanzania where safaris are very popular. I am in two minds - i belive they are very important if they are good zoos and take good care of the animals but dont agree with animals couped up in small spaces with little to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishPastry Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) Denmark has some fantastic zoos, and possibly some not so good ones as well, but I have not been to any of those. I have posted pictures from 2 places recently, one was a "rain forest" and the other have wolves, polar foxes, polar- and brown bears, caribou, deer, raindeer etc and both those places are absolutely fantastic. The animals in the last mentioned live outdoor in big spacious enclosures, which suits there different needs, and there was none of the stress behaviours that you see in "old fashioned" city-zoos. Places like that are great, people can go there and see wild animals up close, learn about them, be fascinated. The other end of the scale, where the animals are stuck in little concrete holes with nothing to do but pace back and forth... those places are scandalous, breeding programmes or not. I am aware that some animals are dying out in their natural habitats, and that it is important to keep a certain number alive by breeding them in captivity (with view to them entering release programmes, or go to other good zoos), but it should not be done at the cost of the individual animal. I think the minute to hold a wild animal captured and caged, be it born in captivity or not, you also hold a huge responsobility for the welfare of that particular animal. Edited January 12, 2007 by doggie mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houndwoman Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 I have never liked zoos If animals are becoming extinct because we have ruined their environment then I think we have to accept that they will disappear I don't see the point of having so called breeding programmes if the cause of their demise is not dealt with. If things can be put right then then obviously they will survive but we have done so much damage I think perhaps the environment is on a one way trip sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyMalc Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Border Collie and Elricc have summed up perfectly why I think zoo are hideous institutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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