Tigger Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 (edited) Our 13 year old Border Collie, Jack, has been with us since he was 11 weeks old. He has been troubled with arthritis for around least the last 3 years and has been on Metacam for much of that time, with Glucosamine for around the last 6 months. Also, at around 3 years ago, he developed an incontinance problem following an operation to remove a cancerous lump; he has been on Propalin ever since. He is still happy enough, but walks are very limited in length and very slow. Around 6 months ago he started getting up during the night and waking us to let him out. However, from about 3 months ago, he has started to wake at regular intervals during the night and wakes us up, initially by scratching something and then by loudly panting at us continuously. He has got to the stage now where this can happen at 1 to 2 hour intervals, throughout the night. He now refuses to be shut in a room and will scratch for most of the night if we try to do so. He never used to have a problem sleeping through the night and we still have no problem at all during the day, even if we have to leave him alone for several hours. The vet can find nothing wrong with him, apart from old age. Has anyone any experience of this? We would love to know if there is anything we can do, as we can not carry on like this Thanks in advance. Edited January 1, 2007 by Tigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border collie Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Has he gone deaf or lost any of his vision? He would be upset on waking if he can't hear or see any of you. It would be worth a visit to the vets I think to check if he has any extra problems including his pain levels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessC Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Have you talked to your vet about Vivitonin, which can be helpful for ageing dogs - it's for senility..I found it good when my oldie springer started to develop strange habits. Aktivait is a nutraceutical that also might help. Is there anything in the room the dog sleeps in that might be disturbing it in the night? New fridge/freezer? Does your dog sleep near the boiler with a time clock? Could you try letting him have more freedom in the night and allow him to choose where to sleep? I'm sorry you feel that you can't allow this to continue, my oldies get the same respect that I would give to an elderly human and I would do everything in my power to find the source of their issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiccaweys Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 If the vets can find nothing physically wrong other than 'old age', it could be confusion being bought on by the onset of senility. If so, he could be panicking in the dark at night, that could be an explanation of the loud panting directed at you. How is his eyesight? He may be having trouble 'seeing' in the dark now. Is he ok during the day? Will he settle ok? Can he be apart from you during the day? We have had this happen with older dogs, bless them. We have a tried and trusted Wiccaweys remedy totally approved by our vet for helping them sleep if needed (her suggestion actually): A nice bowl of warm milk at bedtime, with honey or a bit of sugar, and a drop of whisky in it. It works - and they love it. Sometimes it really can be as simple as a bowl of warm milk and a dash of Whisky. Fingers crossed. If you need to talk, or need advice, give us a call. We are always at the end of the phone: 07905 203254 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReikiAnge Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Where does Jack sleep at night? I wondered if he's scratching to get out of the room he is in with you, or to get into the room you're in? if he doesn't sleep in with you, could you try moving his bed into your room to see if it helps? Just in case he's worried when he wakes up? I empathise as our oldie, who had a stroke a while back now, seems to have adopted a nocturnal "clock" and we often get up a number of times during the night now. Sometimes she ends up lying down somewhere other than her bed and then can't get herself up, but thankfully (though it doesn't always feel it at 3am in the freezing cold!) the other dogs bark to let us know and then we can get up and help her. Can't remember the last time I had an unbroken night's sleep. She does go back to sleep again after we've got up and let her out etc (and she doesn't always want the loo, so it's not that that is waking her). We've had Sweetie on Aktivait for about 3-4 weeks now and she has definitely "perked up" a lot mentally since then. However it hasn't stopped her nighttime pacing, but it might well help with other dogs. I bought a large crate for her, which is helpful at times but I'm reluctant to put her in it at night in case she toilets (she will and has toileted in the crate) as she will just pace around in it and end up in a right mess. I have crated her during the night a couple of times when I know she won't need the loo and it's been helpful, so would definitely do that more if I was sure she'd not need to toilet. The warm milk and whisky is an interesting one Sarah - especially as I joked to Rob about trying something like that for Sweetie last week! Might have a chat to our vet about it and see what they say - any reason it wouldn't be good for a dog with a heart murmur? Would brandy do instead do you think? Will watch this thread with interest - hope you can find something to help Jack and you get a decent night's sleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiccaweys Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 The warm milk and whisky is an interesting one Sarah - especially as I joked to Rob about trying something like that for Sweetie last week! Might have a chat to our vet about it and see what they say - any reason it wouldn't be good for a dog with a heart murmur? Would brandy do instead do you think? Never tried Brandy, but I don't see why not Ange. However there is just something about hot milk with a dash of whisky, and sweetner of choice - she says with a large mug of steaming milk next to her, with whisky vapour rising and numerous amounts of dogs sitting patiently all apparently claiming to have sleeping problems! It just makes everything relax and feel 'cosy'. Double check with your vet, but I don't see why it would affect a dog with a heart murmur. Buster Peke had a heart murmur and had a drop most nights he was restless - totally vet approved, and old GB loved a snifter every now and again. Buster even knew if he'd been shortchanged on the whisky and would refuse to drink it until the right amount had been added! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted January 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Wow, thanks for the really helpful replies everyone I shall be replying to all of them when I finish work tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted January 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Has he gone deaf or lost any of his vision? He would be upset on waking if he can't hear or see any of you. It would be worth a visit to the vets I think to check if he has any extra problems including his pain levels Jack is definately hard of hearing and his eye sight isn't what it was. Yesterday, when out on his walk, he fell about 100 yards behind and, when he looked up, he couldn't see us. He then started to head back to the car and he couldn't hear us calling. However, I don't think this may be the major cause of the problem as Kathy fed him last night, let him out then stayed up with him for a while and he was still coming up to her panting, despite her being very close by. We will be making a trip to the vets and pain levels will definately be on our list to talk about. As a matter of interest, here's a photo of Jack taken when he was about 11. We live in Cornwall, just off Bodmin Moor; this one was taken on the moors at Minions: I shall reply to everyone else this evening.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted January 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Have you talked to your vet about Vivitonin, which can be helpful for ageing dogs - it's for senility..I found it good when my oldie springer started to develop strange habits. Aktivait is a nutraceutical that also might help. Is there anything in the room the dog sleeps in that might be disturbing it in the night? New fridge/freezer? Does your dog sleep near the boiler with a time clock? Could you try letting him have more freedom in the night and allow him to choose where to sleep? I'm sorry you feel that you can't allow this to continue, my oldies get the same respect that I would give to an elderly human and I would do everything in my power to find the source of their issues I shall ask the vet about Vivtonin and Aktivat as well. Thanks for the suggestion. Nothing has changed in the house to disturb him at night. In the early days of having Collies we were always concerned to establish the right hieracy in the household and the Collies (we used to have two) were never allowed in the bedrooms. When dominance never proved a problem, this was relaxed and they have had a free run of the house for years and it was fine. It's only since this problem started to develop that we tried to restrict Jack's movements at night and it didn't help. Please don't take it the wrong way when I said that it couldn't continue. It wasn't some kind of ultimatum, it's just that I can't continue to do my work during the day if I can't get more than 2 hours of sleep at a time! I'm keen to try and find a constructive solution, which is why I'm here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted January 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 If the vets can find nothing physically wrong other than 'old age', it could be confusion being bought on by the onset of senility. If so, he could be panicking in the dark at night, that could be an explanation of the loud panting directed at you. How is his eyesight? He may be having trouble 'seeing' in the dark now. Is he ok during the day? Will he settle ok? Can he be apart from you during the day? We have had this happen with older dogs, bless them. We have a tried and trusted Wiccaweys remedy totally approved by our vet for helping them sleep if needed (her suggestion actually): A nice bowl of warm milk at bedtime, with honey or a bit of sugar, and a drop of whisky in it. It works - and they love it. Sometimes it really can be as simple as a bowl of warm milk and a dash of Whisky. Fingers crossed. If you need to talk, or need advice, give us a call. We are always at the end of the phone: 07905 203254 Could he be panicing at at night? Possibly. How's his eyesight? He's not blind, but it's not good. Is he okay during the day? Absolutely fine. Although he did come up to Kathy last night when she was sitting in the lounge with the light on and started panting at her. Will he settle during the day? Yes Can he be apart from us during the day? Yes, no problem. The bowl of warm milk, honey/sugar and whisky sounds like a great idea! I shall give it a go and if it works well, I might give some to Jack as well Serously, it's well worth a try! Thanks for leaving your phone number, we shall follow up your advice and others here and if we still have a problem, we will definately give you a call. Thanks a lot. Where does Jack sleep at night? I wondered if he's scratching to get out of the room he is in with you, or to get into the room you're in? if he doesn't sleep in with you, could you try moving his bed into your room to see if it helps? Just in case he's worried when he wakes up? I empathise as our oldie, who had a stroke a while back now, seems to have adopted a nocturnal "clock" and we often get up a number of times during the night now. Sometimes she ends up lying down somewhere other than her bed and then can't get herself up, but thankfully (though it doesn't always feel it at 3am in the freezing cold!) the other dogs bark to let us know and then we can get up and help her. Can't remember the last time I had an unbroken night's sleep. She does go back to sleep again after we've got up and let her out etc (and she doesn't always want the loo, so it's not that that is waking her). We've had Sweetie on Aktivait for about 3-4 weeks now and she has definitely "perked up" a lot mentally since then. However it hasn't stopped her nighttime pacing, but it might well help with other dogs. I bought a large crate for her, which is helpful at times but I'm reluctant to put her in it at night in case she toilets (she will and has toileted in the crate) as she will just pace around in it and end up in a right mess. I have crated her during the night a couple of times when I know she won't need the loo and it's been helpful, so would definitely do that more if I was sure she'd not need to toilet. The warm milk and whisky is an interesting one Sarah - especially as I joked to Rob about trying something like that for Sweetie last week! Might have a chat to our vet about it and see what they say - any reason it wouldn't be good for a dog with a heart murmur? Would brandy do instead do you think? Will watch this thread with interest - hope you can find something to help Jack and you get a decent night's sleep We could certainly try moving his bed upstairs and see if he settles better and we will be asking our vet about Aktivait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigger Posted January 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 (edited) We shall definately be visting the vet again and asking his his opinion about Jack being in pain or not. He went out for his walk with Kathy during the early afternoon and was okay, but very slow. When I took him out tonight, he only got about 300 yards and wouldn't go any further. When I turned back he didn't want to walk then either; I had to carry him for about 30 feet before he could walk again Jack was such an active Collie (he wasn't known as Mad Jack for nothing!) and it's such a shame to see him not being willing and able to go for a walk Edited January 2, 2007 by Tigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdsian Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 As his eyesight isn't as good as it used to be what about a nightlight or leaving a lamp on for him overnight. Its something we used to do for our oldie yorkie when she got a bit disorientated at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redditchlady Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 First of all, for Jack and you all. There are some excellent things to try on here. Let us know how you get on. I sympathise with you as my boy Max (as in my avatar) is getting older now. He is over 12 and his hearing and eyesight aren't what they used to be. Kazz xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9Fran Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Pacing and panting would indicate pain to me I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReikiAnge Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Pacing and panting would indicate pain to me I'm afraid. Or stress. My collie panted and paced after a certain time in the evenings, for a week or so after he came home. He wasn't in pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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