reds Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 In an attempt to help keep Ted. quiet in the ob. ring (he barks with excitement) I've decided to take the advice of lots and lots and lots of fellow competitors and teach him to speak. Or more precisely - teach him to shut up when told Could anyone give me a bit of a walk through the whole process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-dog Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 I don't know if this is the best way but it worked for me. I used a clicker (if your dog already does clicker training then it's easier). I tether the lead to something then stand just out of reach of the dog, Using a toy or something that really gets your dog excited, play with the toy until the dog makes a sound (click n treat). Even the slightest noise gets a reward at first, and he gets to play with the toy. Repeat this then start adding in the verbal command until he's speaking on command. You can withhold the click until you get the the amount of barks you want. Once you've got the speak command trained, you can then work on the quiet command. As before get the dog barking with a speak command then when he's barking the moment he stops, click and treat, adding in the quiet command. I hope that makes sense, I'm not great at explaining things in writing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoC Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 My advice is, don't! It doesn't always mean they'll be quiet in other situations, just that if they're unsure what to do, it'll be one of the things they might try. Your best bet is trying to work out why he's barking. Believe me, this is something close to my heart at the moment. Not working trials but HTM. Charlie barks for three reasons: 1. Frustration, when he doesn't know exactly what to do and gets a bit stressed. Try lowering the criteria to see if that reduces the barking. 2. Excitement, time outs will reduce that, but increase the frustrationg. Only use a time out on a behaviour he knows well so you can reduce the chances of frustration kicking in. 3. Learned, if he thinks it's part of the behaviour. Basically just stop rewarding behaviours with barking. Which do you think it is? With Charlie it's a combination of all three, which is fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reds Posted September 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Thank You all JoC it's nice to talk to a fellow sufferer We do obedience and he is very very good (slight mommy boast but he is!). He is now in A but boy is he a gobby so and so He barks out of, I think, sheer excitement and desperate desire to get in there and do it and then go eat his cheese. The problem is barking in the ring, he is fine but as soon as he sees or senses that we are about to walk through past the ropes it's 'Wow, head blown' time. He can bark and be bouncing off the walls for 5 minutes, incessant barking which is made worse by touching him or doing anything which might wind him up further. Once he's had his barking session he will concentrate, knuckle down and produce a stunning round. At the moment it is down to barking inbetween exercises but in A that costs dear. Where the shows have practice rings it is great because I can literally keep walking in and out of the ring so by the time we go in to compete, it's nothing special and he doesn't have a need to bark so manages to stay quiet. It is just him getting so wound up and totally over-excited. Once that initial 'madness' has passed he is fabulous but you don't get a chance to spend 5 minutes barking in the ring before they start marking I used to drop him into a down when he started barking which helped but now he knows that it's a correction which makes him get even more wound up and starts him off - a bit of a problem when it comes to the A-recalls! He is not the sort of dog you can tell off, he'll just stick his tongue back out at you and carry on to even greater levels! The only thing that works is to get him into working mode and get him concentrating on the job instead of the excitement of it. That's what I'm perservering with but so many people have advised to teach him to speak I thought there must be something in it! The one problem with that is that as he is a clever little bear (read Smart Alec) he'll then bark to prompt me to give him a quiet command and hence his treat! If I don't give him a treat he'll bark because he hasn't had one! He is on skullcap and valerian but I do need a way to control the barking that he'll respond to quite quickly. (An signal that he'll respond to quickly I mean, not a method that has quick results). We keep on persevering and I know we'll get there eventually but the idea of saying 'quiet' and him being quiet was to be honest, a rather nice one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoC Posted September 13, 2006 Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 Well, Charlie has a great 'speak' after hearing that the best way to teach them to be quiet is to teach them to bark, I found out the hard way that's not true! I do have a 'quiet' command, but that oly works on a certain kind of barking, if he barks because the door goes, or because he's frustrated, then the 'quiet' doesn't work. Same as if I went to acting classes and was taught to cry on command, you couldn't stop me crying when something bad happened (or, more accurately for me, when I stub my toe or see a spider). I think like crying, barking is sometimes an emotional reaction, not something the dog is in control of. I've been advised to carry on with the time outs, only been doing it for a couple of days, I'll let you know how it goes! Apart from not addresing the cause, one of the problems with teaching the speak is that some dogs enjoy it (charlie being one!) so when they don't know what to do, they'll try it (like how a lot of dogs, if unsure will sit) What I'm doing is setting up a training session, holding the treats in my hand and at the first noise, I put the treats back in the pot and walk away. At first it got a lot worse, because the frustration barking kicked in, but it actually seems like it might be improving! Better not jinx it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundogsgalore Posted September 13, 2006 Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 How about doing some Ttouch on him before you go into the ring ? where's Tracey I am sure she can advise on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reds Posted September 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 Well, Charlie has a great 'speak' after hearing that the best way to teach them to be quiet is to teach them to bark, I found out the hard way that's not true! I do have a 'quiet' command, but that oly works on a certain kind of barking, if he barks because the door goes, or because he's frustrated, then the 'quiet' doesn't work. Same as if I went to acting classes and was taught to cry on command, you couldn't stop me crying when something bad happened (or, more accurately for me, when I stub my toe or see a spider). I think like crying, barking is sometimes an emotional reaction, not something the dog is in control of. I agree 100% with that Jo. I came upon a similar realisation when I tried the quiet command at club on Monday. It worked fine whilst his attention was on/near me anyway but when he got going over say another dog doing a retrieve, me saying quiet did not even register as he was well past the paying attention stage and he was in his own little world. Gundogsgalore - I agree totally with that too! I wanted to take him to the sessions at the Wicc's show but was busy with the stall so he stayed home (would have just barked the day away!). It is definitely something I would really like to know how to do/have some guidance on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waggi Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 this prob isnt going to help at all BUT when Brock does flyball he makes sooooooooooooooooo much noise and its just because he is so exited by the whole situation he does know quite so i can shut him up i have found if i shut him up, take him away from the ring etc he does his runs really flat (well flat for him) if i let him make his noise hes seems to enjoy himself more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanrossscot Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 this prob isnt going to help at all BUT when Brock does flyball he makes sooooooooooooooooo much noise and its just because he is so exited by the whole situation he does know quite so i can shut him up i have found if i shut him up, take him away from the ring etc he does his runs really flat (well flat for him) if i let him make his noise hes seems to enjoy himself more TRouble is that you get hammered points wise for the dog barking in the ring for obedience the higher classes you work the more points you will lose for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawsnlearn Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 (edited) How about doing some Ttouch on him before you go into the ring ? where's Tracey I am sure she can advise on this. Yes definitely .... it is something that can really help in this situation. Does he bark in training as well as in the competition ring? Sounds like he is barking from sheer excitement and exhuberance. TTouch ground work and body work will help him to be more 'present' and improve his focus. I would also perhaps try a face wrap and/or body wrap to improve his awareness of movement in the body and jaw. Check out for TTouch Workshops in your area or TTouch Practitioners for 121 sessions at UK TTouch & TTEAM website Edited October 23, 2006 by pawsnlearn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 speak is easy. its the stfu thats the hard bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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