batmobile Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Hobbes is in most ways an extremely obedient, loving and easy going Collie. We have no issues with him really (no dog is perfect mind you!) and in a way I feel like a traitor wrting this but in the end, we had a 'bad' walk today so I am going to ask for opinions. Hobbes loves chasing balls - which coliie doesn't? - but his giving/ dropping is getting worse and worse. We have had him 2 years now and initially he was ok, although he would lie down and chew the ball when he'd had enough chasing. But over time, he has got so stubborn about it that it's very frustrating. Basically, i want him to give me the ball because I want it, no other reason. I would give it back but I am not happy about this battle of wills - Hubby and I are boss, full stop. He will give up most things, but balls are so easy to 'hang onto' and impossible to 'prise off him'. We have tried everything: Swapping for another ball, treats (special ones and normal ones), stopping the game (either putting him back in the car or at least putting the ball away when we've got it back) I've made him give it and then given it straight back so he doesn't think we're taking it to throw it for him....I've even put a treat into the side of his mouth and praised him when the ball fell out of his mouth. I've tried walking away and waiting for him to drop it but he grabs it as soon as you approach again (damn those clever collies). It was so bad today that hubby was sweating out of frustration and I was nearly in tears as nothing works and he was making us so angry. He has a group of Belgian Shepherd friends (all female) and their owner throws balls for them and Hobbes is always allowed to join in BUT (and she is a dog trainer and very into obedience) she has said that he is such a good natured, lovely dog but that she has never come across one with a grip like him and as stubborn about giving a ball up. She tried a trick of blowing in his ear - fool proof apprently. He gripped tighter! He has marked her rubber ball because he holds it so tightly. Weirdly, he will drop it for other dogs if they want it but not for anyone. In the house he will drop and give like a pro. I have the 'tug' command if we're playing tuggy and never use it in association with a ball and I make him sit and kneel behind him to try and get the ball so he can't pull etc. Any ideas at all? We don't take a ball out often now because it ends up being a real issue, but he loves it and I think it's a shame as he has so much fun chasing. We tried all methods over a period of time and then changed rather than all in one go so as to confuse him but he will not give - no matter how much praise he gets when he does. He will give for children. I just want to get over this obsession/ possesiveness or whatever it is. And he is never ever aggressive about it at all. Just vice like grip and stubborn. He never growls, goes for you, or even appears to realise that you are cross with him! In my head, i reckon it's all a game to him. We are now going back to general training basics, being a bit stricter with him (he has to work for every treat, ask to come on sofa etc) just in case he was starting to feel like an 'equal' rather than a dog. does that make sense? Sorry its so long...... Jo xxxxxxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9Fran Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Have you thought about back chaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted August 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 How would that work in relation to dropping/ giving a ball? It's not that he doesn't understand what we want him to do, he just won;t do it. would it help with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safneo Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Have you tried overloading him with balls? Take a few out to play with. Let him have his ball and play ball with each other. This is how we taught Saffy her recall. She will do anything for a ball! He may find the ball you are playing with more interesting after a while. You can then praise him for giving up his ball by throwing another one. Just keep switching balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooster Posted August 8, 2006 Report Share Posted August 8, 2006 Smelling salts? If he'll drop it in the house, but not on a walk, could you not carry some smelling salts with you, and use those in combination with the 'drop' command? Failing that, could you not use a ball on a rope, so that you actually have something to get hold of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted August 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2006 Oh has been taking him the last few days and going for a basic 'give' firstly whilst still holding the ball but whilst its in his mouth, then letting go and caling him back and asking him to give. He's been getting better. The problem comeswhen we throw it and then want it. I think he believes after the effort of catching it, he deserves to keep it. We have tried getting it off him, then giving it straight back so he knows we give it back and don't throw it. We are building up to a give whenever we ask for it. We will try both the salts and multi ball in context and se what happens. He does like runnign with other dogs and stuff but we are trying to stop him seeing it quite so much as a possession and more as a means to chase - if that makes sense. We have been very pleased with him the last few days as he has been giving it up more. Balls on a rope - bane of our life! He decides that its a game of tuggy and they are even harder to get off him! He's a b*gger. Far too clever.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-dog Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Please don't use smelling salts, surely a ball isn't that important that you need to resort to that. By trying so hard to get the ball off him, you're making it more valuable. does he love you to throw the ball, or is it just possession of the ball he wants. Go back to the two ball method and try it for say a week. I don't know what method you've used but this worked for my collie. Throw a ball/toy and let the dog keep it, don't make any attempt to get the ball from him. Once he's picked it up let him know you have the other ball. make a big fuss over having the other ball but do not throw it until he's dropped the first one, even if it takes ten minutes. This will hopefully teach him that when you throw a ball he runs back to you with it to get the next ball. It's got to be worth trying and to be honest if you use smelling salts you're asking to be bitten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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