greyhound pal

I am thinking various thoughts. Firstly, its more likely that welfare reforms/lack of attendance at tracks could potentially end the affordability of the majority of greyhound owners. That wouldn't necessarily end racing but it could create problems in that it would really be those only in it for money that would be able to financially sustain the "sport". Which may mean longer term that the welfare aspect could become hidden deeper. One thing I have learned is that your Joe Bloggs owner does it for the competitiveness rather than plain old money. Thats not to say money won't come into it. However you then have to look at who are the big moneymakers in the sport. The bookies. The trainers who are taking and running BAGS dogs. The tracks through BAGS sponorship. The greyhound dealers. The breeders. Any law made in England would have a direct impact on the Irish breeders which would mean a significant reduction in the numbers that are bred. I would strongly doubt the Irish racing industry could financially support itself to be able to continue and would eventually fold. I also strongly suspect those who have made mega money from breeding greyhounds (good stud dogs 2000 euros a pop) would find something more profitable than greyhounds if the money wasn't there. Majority of the dogs going through the auctions in Ireland are either bought by people who will then transport them to England/UK or by the dog dealers who will buy in Ireland and bring them to the English auctions. Therefore I imagine that if the Irish greyhound Board was able to sustain greyhound racing in their country without the financial boost the UK gives them whatever they did breed and sell would be a significant reduction in what the current situation is. Peterborough, Perry Barr etc auctions are nothing compared to what you face in the Irish auctions. At least there is a pretence for animal welfare (believe it or not) in the UK which there certainly isnt in Ireland. I would like to think these horrific places would be a thing of the past shoudl racing end in the UK for whatever reason. Cyprus also has racing as does Morocco although Morocco was supposed to close, it didn't. But again, a lot of these dogs are transported out but there are fewer transports now Spain has stopped and its unlikely that export abroad would be viable to sustain the Irish breeding/dealing/racing industry. Fab post Cycas. The difficulty is that people hear 'ban greyhound racing' and they jump immediately to all sorts of conclusions instead of listening/reading what this could entail - its frustrating! I just want to add that GA Scotland is a separate organisation and our 'mission' is to outlaw the breeding, training and racing of greyhounds in Scotland. This is because if same was banned in England or any other part of the UK, Scotland would not recognise this. However Westminster retains power over gambling, taxes etc in Scotland therefore we could not achieve a ban of betting on dogs in Scotland - that would have to be UK wide legislation. We have written up how a ban could be brought in but I think its more specific to Scotland than the rest of the UK with the exception of maybe Wales. Thats because Scotland has five flapping tracks and only one NGRC hence why I've put the bit about racing becoming unaffordable for most which could lead to the end of it in Scotland if the right reforms were brought in. Its all very complex though. Whatever way no legislation would ban greyhound racing without a time period - we recommended two year period which would mean there would be a reduction in dogs bought in for racing an it would naturally die out. n Given teh average career is 18 months this shouldn't create much more wastage than 'normal'. My understanding is that there are some still being transported to Spain and that could be the reason behind it. Our 'mate' Normilles is still doing the occasional run apparently. What are you basing that theory on? Personally I dont' think for one second those who race greyhounds would change to whippets. They're different dogs for a start and any legislation which ends greyhound racing would take into account any such issues that could be transferred to other animals. I dont' think this is a valid argument for not banning greyhound racing or has any real basis other than to worry whippet owners. Remember the scaremongering (that failed to materialise) when the hunting with dogs legislation came in?

So many fab posts here I really don't have anything to add. Tried to get on to post before I went camping straight from nightshift but didn't get a chance to post. Just want to ask Terrier - do you still think that there is room to rehome all the greyhounds once the industry has declared they're no good? Can answer why this would be impossible although I think the figures really speak for themself.

I bought Cleo some of the HiLife sachets yesterday and she loves it - finsihed her bowl within minutes! Am going to have to try to get to a pet shop for JWB because the local one here doesn't stock it. Am so relieved because the non-eating was worrying me. Am going to look into homeopathy and see if there is anything in that that might work. I really just wished the person who'd made so much money out of her and her kittens had just vaccinated her or at the minimum, taken her to the vets as soon as she got ill instead of leaving her to suffer

Will try honey and JWB and see if it works. And its funny you should mention fur falling out because that has happened to Cleo before but at the time the vet was so worried about her breathing and attacks that he told me not to worry about it and concentrate on getting the steroid dose right thanks so much!

Was just coming on to post about that poor Peterborough hound Good idea Fee. Poor lamb.

Thank you! I never thought anything in her food may make things worse. She's on Go-cat complete although gets tuna when she's on meds because its the only way to getting her to take the meds. What should I be looking for in food?

Hello I'm a tad worried about our Siamese Cleo. This is long and discusses cat snot as a warning to anyone who is squeamish! Cleo-cat came to us four years ago. She's now around 8 years old we think - her teeth are too bad for the vet to even estimate her age. She had been used as a breeding machine and came complete with untreated cat flu. Siamese being prone to having respiratory issues with cat flu wasn't a good mixture and the vet believed this did extensive damage to her respiratory system and that it was likely to get progressively worse. Cleo catches coughs whenever we have them. She doesn't go out at all. The vet has attempted twice to put a camera down to detect the extent of the damage however both times have failed so we don't know how bad things are. About a year ago she had a really bad asthma attack and was diagnosed with asthma and we took months to find the right dose of steroids to manage her wheeziness. Because of the nature of steroids, each time she has a cough or cold of any kind, we stop them until she's better. She's been on countless doses of antibiotics. Around May this year she got the sniffles - I say sniffles but she projectile snots all over the place. With this she becomes very unwell. She was also relatively wheezier than usual. In discussion with the vet, we took her off the steroids because we believed this was allergy related. To be precise we believe she has hayfever. Her sniffles havent' been good however she isn't wheezing or coughing as much as she normally does. Because of that we've kept her off steroids. Her bad days coincide with my daughters hayfever bad days - we don't have double glazing and we're in a town surrounded by rape seed fields. Even people who've never had hayfever before are affected by it this year.... Although she is still snotting badly, she's not eating very much at the moment. She isnt' wheezing too badly and there has been no asthma attacks at all lately. Because of what steroids do to her immune system and I'm very aware they may shorten her already shortened life span, I'm trying to keep her off them as long as possible. I'm aware the second it starts again I will get her back on to the steroids because they do stop the asthma attacks and there has been more than one occasion where I've thought I was going to lose her during an attack. Its the sneezing that is frustrating (apart from snot being dried in walls and furniture all over the house!) and uncomfortable for her - frequently her nose is sealed with snot and I have to pick it off which she really doesn't like - I have the scratches to prove that. So what I'm asking is bearing in mind Cleo's other problems, does anyone have any suggestions or ideas on how I can alleviate any of this but particularly the snneezing? The vet is very good and there have been several times where she has been so ill that he's prepared me for the worst. But I feel the constant drugs she's being given isn't good for her and if there is anything less harmful I'm willing to give it a go. I'm not going to have her forever or even as long as I feel I should have (I can see how she has deterioriated since she came here first) but I want to try everything I can to make her as comfortable as I can for as long as possible Thanks.

Sorry Raiye! Its digressed more than a little but I think its due to the industry owning the tracks that non-greyhounds are racing at which means they become very much linked. Think perhaps a new thread to do greyhound racing and leave this one on topic?

We're posting at the same time There isn't a both ends for problem. To have an industry you need to mass produce dogs. When you mass produce dogs you end up with a surplus. Plus of course there are all the dogs who aren't any good for racing in the first place - the non-chasers/racers. The greyhound farmers will not and never will stop culling these pups because financially its not viable to rear such a dog. There is so much more to it but I'm not focused enough tonight to go into it. I'm reluctant to say there is more rooms for homes. I think that I would by choice only have two dogs but because there are so many out there I have five. Thats not about personal choice though. There are a lot of reasons for my hesitance on this issue which I'm probably best not going into at the moment. But I will say why should Joe Public take on a greyhound? Why should they take on a dog that has been exploited and dumped on them? A gryehound isn't for everyone and there is no way on earth that any amount of publicity would rehome them all. I dont' understand where you are seeing we could make these homes come from? I don't understand why there are so many dogs being pts because they dont' have a home when there are more homes out there. Although I can see where you are coming from, I'm a lot more cynical about pet homes for greyhounds and whether or not your idea wouldn't just create a load of greyhounds being dumped by pet homes who perhaps weren't really wanting that particular breed or not equipped to deal with the breed. I've lost count of the number of times I'veread trainers stating that they'd rather kill their greyhounds than let the general public near one of their dogs. And although that makes me quite angry, if they're handed out to anyone (which in order to rehome so many, rescues would need to be less strict) wouldn't that just give those trainers something to really worry abut? Sorry - am so distracted tonight so I might have stopped sounding logical a few hours ago

Sorry will quickly answer then really need to go get on with all this other stuff... Think I've cleared up the using congratulate instead of encourage which I amended my post - got confused and I've already apologised for that. I won't be doing it a second time. It didn't change the whole point of the post though. I don't agree that encouraging welfare reforms would be effective. What I always try to ask but never get much of an answer from anyone who promotes welfare reforms is this: if the industry could produce figures on the numbers of dogs culled/pts and reduced it to say, 1000 greyhounds a year, would that be reformed enough for you? Because the reality is that as long as there is an industry, dogs will die either on track or when they are no good for racing. Thats something that no welfare reforms can change. The number dead was a liberal estimate - a very liberal one. Given the industry could have easily collated and provided info on how many dead dogs we're talking about many years ago but didn't (wonder why!) then its a dud argument in so many ways. APGAW state at least 5000 dogs are unaccounted for. They believe thats grossly underestimated. However work ot the number of pups who don't make it as far as earmarking (maybe up to half the numbers registered) and 25000 pups bred for racing each year with around 18000 retiring. Also remember the pups that didnt' make it that far (scary thinking we could be talking about as many as 36000 pups) then the official figures (last time I heard) were around 4000 rehomed. Where are the other dogs? But its all speculation and will remain so until the industry tells us different (which it never will). I'd like to think there are as little as 5000 but I believe due to various experiences I've had that its at least triple that amount As for being baffled about how I interpretated you. Welfare reforms within the industry is to a certain extent accepting the things that can never be changed as being okay. Thats how I came to the conclusion that you perhaps aren't seeing the wider picture. I'm not quite understanding several of your points but I think thats more about me than you.

Your first point. There will never be enough homes there for all the greyhounds that retire from racing. No amount of money will buy homes for all the dogs retiring from racing. The sheer numbers of greyhounds out there mean it is impossible for trainers/owners to rehome all their dogs. And as this is something they should be doing in the first place, I dont' see what encouraging them to change would actually achieve. I don't blame rescues for taking in dogs. And I certainly don't agree that rescues cleaning up the mess caused by the racing industry is keeping teh industry going. Without the rescues, more would just end up pts in local pounds or killed by some other means. We have a 'trainer' locally who hands out dogs to anyone who asks about them. As a result there was an incident a few months ago where the unsuitable homed greyhound was killed. I don't think this man should be encouraged to rehome his dogs like this. Not when the reality is he just wants the space and doesn't care less what happens to the dog as long as its off his hands. I'm trying to say that by encouraging them is buying in to the claims that welfare reforms would be effective when the reality is no welfare reforms would even touch the surface and they would only create another smoke screen like so many 'reforms' have in the past. Your second point about pet homes, puppy farms and whatever. Its a sore point for me at the moment because of other things going on. I just want to point out that I do as much as I can for all dogs but try to stay focused on the greyhound. I just want to say that without greyhounds and the massive numbers of them clogging up rescues, the chances are the UK could significantly reduce the numbers of dogs beng pts each year. Each space a greyhound (which no one can argue the breeding of greyhounds is way out of control) takes up in rescues and homes is taking up a space that another breed of dog could be in. The industry's waste product doesn't just touch those involved in greyhound rescue - it touches every council tax payer who picks up the bill for greyhounds being pts and every LA area who pts dogs. It touches all breed rescues in one way or another. You'll have to excuse me for the badly written posts - I've got so much else going on tonight that I'm finding it hard to focus

Its not so much they are a weaker breed as it is that they have short hair and thinner skin than 'normal' breeds which means that they tear so much easier because they don't have the protection of hair and thicker skin like othar breeds. Their skin really is paper thin which means a nick you probably won't even notice in another breed of dog is more apparent and I swear the wound opens as they move. One example of how extreme it can be is tail injuries. It can be something simple like wagging their tails and hitting it off a door or whatever. Vets rarely attempt to fix them because there isn't enough skin there and what you do get is further tears and infection so they tend to amputate. Anyway I digress... Their bones aren't any thinner or more fragile that other breeds of dogs. What is different is the speed the greyhound runs at which means if they do knock or fall or slide, then the injury is likely to be much more severe. Which leads me back to it doesn't matter what breed they are, they are just as likely to be injured as a grehound (but perhaps not as serious). However the design of the track isn't helpful to the dogs themselves due to the bends and the surfaces and straight line racing apparently equates to significantly reduced injury. Not that the industry cares

You appear to have misunderstood my words and accused me of being pedantic so I'll change what I wrote just to ensure what I meant is clear. I apologise for getting confused but whatever word used, it boils down to the same point: "And why the hell should we encourage an industry thats all about smoke screens. Should we encourage them on rehoming however many dogs they rehome when we KNOW there are two or three times that amount lying dead? So ignore the dead ones and concentrate on what good they do? No thanks."

From a quick google search: "The “winners†– the dogs who survive the early years and training – routinely risk their lives on the tracks. Two dogs were killed in the same race at Belle Vue track in Manchester in May 2002 when they fell and broke their necks. In the same month, Santa Power broke his leg in a race at Hall Green greyhound track and was allegedly left “screaming in agonyâ€. " "For the survivors, injuries are commonplace. Races are run all year round, even when the track is frozen, and this contributes to injuries. Injured toes, torn muscles, strained tendons and arthritic joints are everyday problems. Paddy Sweeney, a vet who specialises in greyhound injuries, believes that the long straights and the tight bends of traditional racing tracks contribute to these injuries. It is thought that as much as 10 per cent of the dogs race despite injuries." "Greyhounds competing on the 30 official British greyhound tracks sustain a minimum 7560 injuries every year with hundreds put-to-sleep (PTS) solely for economic reasons according to the latest research.The figure is based on the steward’s comments for racing at Sittingbourne during February; a track reputed one of the safest in the country by stadium Director Roger Cearns (1). Because of the claim made by Cearns and because many injuries are never identified the true national annual figure is understood to be very much higher. " And of course from our own website:These came from one single edition of the racing post. Extract from Racing Post [one edition]: SINGLE FILE, who shattered his hock in what trainer Tom Foster described as the worst injury of this type he had ever seen during the Pall Mall semis at Oxford, has been put to sleep. KNOCKEEVAN MAJOR, one of the leading Irish fancies for the English Derby, has been retired to stud after sustaining a serious gracilis muscle injury during the Produce Stakes at Clonmel on Sunday AROUND ALONE EXCITING prospect Around Alone had to be put to sleep after shattering his stifle when baulked and knocked over at the first bend in heat two of the John Smiths Breeders Cup at Nottingham FULL CIGAR sustained a stress fracture LATE LATE SHOW, hailed the People's champion in Ireland, has run his last race after a freak accident at Shelbourne Park recently CUCCIOLO NERO has fractured a hock bone HOLLINWOOD HERO sustained a wrist injury on Peterborough Puppy Derby final night and has been retired to the breeding paddocks Thats the difficulty when quotes are cut out to suit and misrepresent what was said. What I actually said was:

ETA: this doesn't mean I don't think you should see her but perhaps see her and try to act as an intermediary - although I can almost guarantee your SIL will tell you she doesn't care for a while but she does. She just can't afford to let anyone, including herself, know this.

Can I just say that losing your child like this (and thats whats happened) is your worst nightmare multiplied by one hundred. Even as a parent you cannot imagine what this is like. Until it happens to you. Its like a death. Sounds dreadful but its true. But its a death where you can't mourn and can't have a funeral and can't do anything. You face the fact that you have failed as a parent. You have people who have no idea (smug parents and childless people in particular are harder on you) what you have put into this child judging you and telling you where you've gone wrong. I was lucky that I was helped through it by some very special people. The one person who should have been there for me, wasn't. You are powerless and go from angry to utter love to begging to confusion. Constantly. You don't eat and sleep. When you do sleep, its dreaming about them. You bring this child into the world. You nurse it, you raise it, you try so hard to instill good morals and respect, dignity, compassion into this child. You love your child so much. Then one day (in my case) they tell you they hate you and don't want to live with you any more, let alone even speak or see you again. They then move out. It leads you to darker places than you ever believe you are capable of going. It drives you to despair and you dream of turning back time and constantly beat your self up. You start to believe that there is one way out because you can't bear the pain. Meanwhile you have to function because no one will see you as 'bereaved' parent but a failed one so you have to carry on and internalise all tehse feelings. Its horrific. I took some months to get to your SIL's stage. Its the anger part - where its easier to block them out than keep going over and over and over it again. Its easier to pretend they dont' exist than to live in the reality. What I'm saying is that its a hard time for you but your SIL is only dealing with it the way she knows how. And should you have contact with her, its only a reminder of what she's lost and can't have Its an awful situ but rightly or wrongly I believe that one important lesson teens should learn when they are this way is tough love. Certainly I think I went very wrong by not making my daughter feel bad when she did things which were wrong. Anyway I'm off now because I'm all emotional again.

NO - I would most certainly NOT be happy to watch greyhounds racing if the industry cleaned up its act simply because the industry could not possibly, under any circumstances, stop dogs from dying in their thousands. No amount of welfare reforms or money could change the fact that in order to have a greyhound racing industry in the first place, they need to breed greyhounds in their thousands which of course leads to a surplus. Which inevitably means death for too many. But then one hound dying in order to continue with this "sport" is one dead hound too many for me . And as for 'bred for' - yes my greyhounds may have been bred for the racing industry but greyhounds the breed were bred for nearly 2000 years BEFORE people came along to exploit them for human enteratinment. I woudl rather they weren't bred at all rather than be bred and disguarded I think Claz pretty much covered what I would have (except I can only dream about getting my point over like she did ) Except a wee pondering of mine. How come if the licensed tracks blame the flapping tracks and the flapping tracks blame the licensed tracks, then who's faulty is it? Where do these 'inbetween' tracks come from where dogs get hurt and are put to death if flapping tracks AND the licensed ones deny it happens on their tracks? Whatever way I must be imagining the tracks I've visited (we have five flapping in comparison to one NGRC in Scotland) because I really can not in a million years think how anyone could justify running their dogs on them. AS above. What reforms could stop the mass death? And where exactly do you get these homes from - bearing in mind 8000+ non greyhounds are pts each year due to lack of homes? And why the hell should we congratulate an industry thats all about smoke screens. Should we congratulate them on rehoming however many dogs they rehome when we KNOW there are two or three times that amount lying dead? So ignore the dead ones and concentrate on what good they do? No thanks. But we are talking about greyhounds. And I do sincerely hope you putting your dogs at risk in the way you are doesn't lead to them coming to any harm. Whatever way you wish to justify what you do with your dogs then thats up to you. I can't and don't agree with what your doing. And I feel that comparing what you are doing to using transporters ia totally way off the mark

I wanted to post something about that but couldn't find the right words Just want to add that I think that most rescues wouldn't use such transporters if there was an alternative. Unfortunately this is the fastest and probably the easiest way to get a hound to safety

Gah it wont' let me edit! So adding this: Mrs Mop's dog raced at the same track as two of mine with a notorious first bend where I witnessed a dog come to serious harm. Nothing on earth would allow any of my dogs to race at any of these tracks. Its not just the bends. THere is a spate of injuries due to lack of maintenance at a local greyhound track here. Then, of course, there was the track who were putting diesel in the sand to stop it freezing. Several dogs with diesel allergy/skin complaints later... Yep - thats another very important point for me. I would struggle to make it okay with my conscience. To me, its wrong and most definitely something the industry itself will use as an argument.

Was going to make a few points here but most of them are already made! This is first and foremost the most important point for me. The bends in the tracks are designed to 'trip the dog up'. Any edition of the Racing Post will contain several articles of dogs falling at bends and breaking backs, legs, necks... They're not 'safe'. Mrs Mop's dog raced at the same track as two of mine with a notorious first bend where I witnessed a dog come to serious harm. Well said Kazz Yep - thats another very important point for me. *nodding agreeing fully*

Came back on to post - isn't it a town in Portugal where they run a selection of animals off the town pier each year in the name of 'tradition'? And are there not bullfights in Portugal too? I may be having a memory malfunction here

I truly believe personality is something thats shaped by a variety of factors. I don't think the influences of peer pressure is shaped by the parents. But then I really don't believe a parents influence is paramount - there is too much else out there. If I did agree with you, I'd have to admit to being the biggest failure as a mother in the world...

Things is at the moment everywhere is a bit mad - I'm just back from a tour of Eastern Europe and the Latvian Lat in particular has gone way up against the pound That wasn't my experience to be honest but I've only really done the south east of Poland. OH jeez Morocco made me ill with the monkeys and snakes and the working donkeys Check out Slovenia - borders Italy (was part of Italy for a long time) and Croatia and its absolutely stunning. Never saw one stray animal my whole tour. Also sun and see and lots of stunning places Fee - I was going to Romania this year but I couldn't do it so I've compromised and agreed to do ROLDA working holiday next year. We did Ukraine and Moldova instead because someone told me there wasn't a stray problem - needless to say there was and I'm now contacting all these animal groups there offering help

I'm there with you - have to watch where I go because I can't stop myself from getting involved. If you aren't too bothered about sun, what about Poland? Or the Baltic States? Or Slovenia? Slovenia can be quite warm at that time of year