Allie No Dots

Which was exactly the point i noticed with Reuben and the aunt. She didnt report it either.

But heres the thing...we already have a law that could have been used When the aunt was bitten and the first time the GSD bit. The proposal doesnt do anything different to what is already here in those cases...so why it is so fantastic? there is a big problem with the aunts situation but that wouldnt have been solved by the proposal either.

Had a very quick google and there is a problem in the Ellie case. Im just having a think on an answer lol

AFAIK the claims where she had been told. In the court case tho they verdict came back they didnt beleive that was the case iirc. Was she told? Who really knows. If she knew what would happen would she have let the dog in? Highly unlikely. IIRc she left them alone? We need this drummed into people...dont leave kids and dogs alone. Make that an offence by all means. That may make people think twice but the proposal doesnt actually do that. The previous incident with the dog, ill google in a bit lol I cant remember the full details but i think it was something about the dog with kiel had gone for another dog walked by an older chap? Iirc it was in a public place. question arises why was this not dealt with at the time. The law covers that (if im right in what happened) yet nothing was done. That doesnt make the need for a new law, it means we have to actually use the ones we have. I read an article y day about a dog that attacked another onlead dog in a public place. Took three people to get the dog off and owner felt fear. The police station where quoted as saying they had recieved a complaint but where not activley looking further into it. Why not?

Education would be a massive start. I dont think for a minute that if any of the recent high profile fatalities from dog attacks could have been avoided, that the owners would have allowed it to happen. They didnt know and now have to live through this forever. the main point is this law doesnt protect. We have laws that cover all of the situations in the proposal already. I fail to see the point of lumping them together and saying what a good move it is. If this goes through we will not be able to get a workable change in for a long time. During that time more people will be attacked and we will be no further forward.

they plan to use defences for a theif being bitten. What are DNB's thoughts on the proposal? This could very well be brought to England too and would be good to know DNBS take on the situation.

If a dog attacks then its already not stopped an attack has it? We already have a perfectly good law that means if a dog attacks on private property the courts can order the dog be muzzled etc or destroyed. I looked into this a bit more yesterday and as it stands, if a cat climbs into my garden and my dogs chase it (with intent probably!) and i recall them they dont listen then i could be breaking the law. that worries me greatly!

no surprise there. If you look at alot of comments from various orgs over the last 24 hrs you can already see them trying to pave the way for this. Its wrong, will not work and is wasting our time taking it away from preventing attacks. Bit like in 1991 eh?

apart from giving owners of dogs that attack on private property a criminal record, dog on dog attacks is about the only change this proposal makes. People can already be ordered to muzzle dogs ect or even have them destroyed if their dog attacks on private property. that isnt new, only the record is new, criminal instead of civil. I know from calls i take that many owners get a dog without realising how important it is to check out parents ect. They mean well but they didnt know how big an effect that could have. If education was forced on all dog owners, a huge number of which mean well then we have a shot of a decrease in attacks. also when dogs do attack we need to look at that dog, Alive, and see why. Get the facts then find out the best answer. This proposal goes through it will not work. It is that simple. Yet if it goes through the chances of changing the law to a better workable effective law wont happen again for years to come.

Another take on the proposal... http://www.dogmagazine.net/01/16/scottish-...-dogs-proposal/

Many good points. If the index was reopened it would save a huge amount of hassle for all too. Many would reg their dogs muzzle them ect but the law doesnt allow for this at the moment. as you point out, even dog on dog theres problems with how this will work. Much better to tackle the cause before a problem occurs then deal with the aftermath else we will just find ourselves back here when they realise this proposal doesnt work.

Make it law instead of making this proposal law Its illegal to drive a car without showing you know how, sitting a test. Maybe we should do the same with dogs?

Re Ellie I dont think so. There was a complaint in the past yes afaik but say it had gone to court what would have happened. Based on one complaint where iirc no one was actually hurt? Its unlikely the dog would have been pts. Probably muzzle and lead in public. You cant muzzle a dog 24-7 which would have possibly been the only way to have stopped what happened. We still do not know exactly what happened that day. Why he attacked. Without knowing why things happen we cant say what the answer is. what annoys me with the proposal is there is absolutley NOTHING in it that will protect the majority of the public. Something was very wrong in every single dog attack recently and you can bet your life not one of the dog owners wanted what happened. Instead of punishing them how about we show them how things can happen so they ensure it doesnt happen in the first place? Surley that makes more sense?

No problem with charging people who deliberatly allow their dogs to be a problem. But do you think it will stop any dog attack? I looked at the proposal alot yesterday. It says it will act pre empting any issue but then says it will charge those whose dogs attack or are out of control...thats after not before so it isnt stopping anything from what i can see. All it seems to do is allow people like archies parents, to then be dragged through a court...as if they havent suffered enough. there are imho other ways of doing it and doing it better.

Totally correct. But someone tell me why hauling archie or ellie or anyone elses mother/grandparent ect through a court of law is going to protect the public? Do you not think if they had any idea at all of what would happen that they would have stopped it? So how does charging them help anyone? this proposal is weak, doesnt do anything to prevent attacks and simply opens up a whole new minefield for dog owners, responsible or otherwise not to mention misleading the public to think they will be protected..

Personally speaking, I dont see how that would have saved the life of Archie or any of the others

Your thoughts?

So sorry sleep tight Kass

so sorry

Permission to crosspost?

Jesus christ Can i crosspost and have you details of paypal for donations? does she have a name ?

I once spoke to a large organisation and a solicitor rwith canine legislation exp egarding this and the advice was that you had to have the rescue as the owner and the new owners as the adopter or custodian of the dog. Provided you where the actual owner you had a chance. I have no idea if this has changed (it was a year or two back now) but that was his advice at the time. (not regarding a bitch who had pups)

Awwwww manda he looks great! you lot have done wonders with him! Sooo much better!

Noras the one with the dodgy leg. Specialist finally diagnosed OCD. Unfortunatly there isnt a great deal that can be done save an operation which will bring on early onset arthritis sooo is swings and roundabouts. Atm we are trying to manage it with periods of rest, metacam and controlled play walks. Not sure how long it will continue as, at present noras can only manage 10 minute walks. Any longer and she limps once she rests at home. We have managed to get her and tony to play together without any limping tho so thats summit. Just playing it day by day though we know soon she will need the op.

One day ill record her during the evening when shes sprawled on the sofa. If she farts less than 20 times and if at least one of those doesnt last for ten seconds, ill send you tony lol