lucyandmeg

He he, i don't know how much clearer i could have been waving my left arm shouting "left tunnel" and screaming "no" when she shot past me to go to the far end. We'd even practised that in training on friday and she got the right end every time. The trouble is as you say kirisox is that she does on autopilot and does her own thing. We had this problem in training last year, whic hwe have fixed so that now i can pull her away from most obstacles, even stopped her going into the tunnel instead of the tyre last night. She gets so excited at competitions that she just swiches off occaisionally. I really don't believe there was anything handler wise that i could have done to prevent her going in the wrong end of the tunnel, i knew she would do it as soon as i walked the course! Waves has been a huge problem for us. She is doing them really well in training now, not so good on the right, but still a huge improvement. I have to hang back once she starts as if i getto close she starts to race and misses the last few poles as i think happened in the agilty. Last year we had big problems in competitions as she got stressed and wouldn't even attempt the weaves, so i suppose we have made sme improvement there. We have a one to one session every week and a group lesson most weeks, and i have access to a field full of agility equipment any time i want. So its not for lack of trying! Thanks for the advice guys. I feel a little happier about things now, i was just feeling so confident when i walked the course as i knew she would fly round it in training, as we have come on so well since last year, famous last words. I do think she is better on the more advanced courses though as she tends to just get up speed on the simpler ones. Hey ho, our next proper show is end of april, so i'll le you know how we get on.

Oh that is fantastic! THis is something that has really worried me, as meg being a collie, has the talent to win out eventually (although it doesn't seem like it at the moment, but im told if we start going clear in beginners we are fast enough to get placed, I'll believe it when i see it!) but my spaniel and retriever are never liekly to progress beyound beginners, i only enter them for something to do on the day so they don't get bored.

I have found that for a clicker trained dog its really easy to train a dog by building up the weaves slowly. Start off with 2 or 3 and then just start by showing the dog by luring once or twice. THen see if the dog will offer anything just by standing and waiting. As your dig has done the weaves by luring before you may find he may well offer a wiggle. Click any clear intention to go through the poles correctly no matter how little. Then once hes doing 3 correctly add in more poles. I don't have to lure any of my dogs, i just stand there and they will attempt the weaves. I am still at the stage of rewarding ever few weaves, but we are slowly lengthening the numbero f weaves before we reward.

I have been doing agility with meg (wsd) for over 2 years now and did a few uka competition and a few local competitions last year. We never managed to get a clear round last year, but since our last competition in october last year we have been working really hard and she has improved her weaves and directional control so much i had really high hopes for this year. We had our first competition today and still no clear rounds. Meg is super fast and i have been told many times that she has real potential, yet i see people getting clear on their first competitions so where are we going wrong? Today she was making silly mistakes again, like going through the wrong end of the tunnel despite it being completly obvious which way she should go, and missing the entry to the weaves and running on. I know i shouldn't get frustrated as it is only fun, and i try to not show ho i feel to meg so she doesn't panic. The courses today were so incredibly straight forward, we work at novice courses at training and yet she couldn't even go clear in a beginners course. Oh well, trouble is she knows the differnce between traing and competitions, collies are too clever for their own good.

No matter how many times i read through that rule book, i never quite understand these games! I find it hard enough to work out a normal course! I much prefer the time,fault and out and power and speed, but no one seems to be offering these this year.

Well done for trying to help. I'm glad that she is thinking of doing something with this dog, but can you tell me why it only gets 2 hours a week of proper exercise? Even if it does flyball it still should have one good walk a day. Perhaps if she can't commit to proper exercise she should think about rehoming the dog?

*update* We had a bit of a break through today. Because it was too wet and cold to walk after work i decided to do some training. I did exactly what i did before, and this time they all started offering behaviours. Murphy absolutely adores it and gets so excited he throws himself all over the place making silly noises, but i managed to get him to lay down and put his chin of the floor between his front paws ("chin") just by shaping - no luring whatsoever, i'm dead chuffed as im useless at shaping. Ellie initially went back to offering safe behaviours as before which i initially rewarded, but then stopped and asked her to try again and waited for anything different. Because she wasn't so tired she was more with it and actually offered me something. Its still a slow process, but she actually managed to work out that i wanted her to go round the cone without me asking her, and she only wandered off once. (but came back). She looked really pleased with herself afterwards, not at all depressed and bored as she usually does. So hurray, things are getting better- although i am breaking the first rule of dog training, training 3 dogs at once, opps! Interestingly enough i found they were actually learning by watching each other, if ellie offered something then so would murphy, amazing!

The hampshire harriers, we are a fairly new team, only really set up last year. I think where i have been going wrong is that i have been trying to train them like my collie, but shes a totally different kettle of fish. I've been trying to reward him with a ball instead of food, he likes his ball, but is far more obsessed by food. I'll borrow a box next week and work on clicker training it with food. Thanks for all your help!!

Ok, meg my collie is ball mad and picked up the whole flyball thing in a very short time, only a couple of sessions. My springer and goldie are more of a challenge as although they don't mind playing fetch, their whole lives do not revolve around tennis balls! Murphy has been doing flyball since before christmas, and up until a few weeks ago he had just about got it, albeit a bit slow, but the past few weeks hes completely lost the plot and all he wants to do is sniff and eat horse poo (which has always been there, don't know whats changed.) Ellie started a few weeks ago but only does very small amounts as she gets bored and tired very easily until she gets switched on. Both dogs are great at doing recalls down the lanes and are both reasonably fast (althuogh not collie fast.) but murphy just can't wor out the going up and fetching the ball thing. He also tries to get the ball out with his paw rather than his mouth when the box is loaded, whic hwe can't seem to stop. I'm almost at the end of my tether as we are getting nowhere fast, and another dog started last week and picked it up in one session and is now more advanced than murphy! Now i ahve read that eddie isn't ball mad, gooster, so did you train him differently, and how long did it take?

Well, youre metal picture is probably very accurate!!

I have clicker trained my dogs ever since i have had them, but i have nearly always used the lure and reward method rather than free shaping. I have done a little free shaping, mainly the touch and the pick up and hold a dumbell, but little else. My dogs can do an awful lot of tricks etc on command but hardly ever offer anything. Having watched my friends training their dogs, their dogs are falling over themselves to offer things, walking backwards, paw on face, bark, touch, pick up things, they look so alive, and are incredibly clever. So i decided to try some free time to liven them up and try to geth them to think for themselves a bit more. Basically i jsut started to click them for anything they did, and then if they repeated something over and over i stopped clicking and asked them to try again. Surprisingly it was very difficult. THe only one that really got the idea was the spaniel (who has never been the sharpest tool in the box) who was throwing himself all over the place. THe collie tried a couple of things, but seemed to get stuck on a few behavious, sit, down, and paw over the face. (the last thing i taught her). She was a bit more motivated with a ball but still struggling. The worst was my retriever (ellie) who just wouldn't offer me anything other than paw over the face (last thing i taught her) and the occaisional sit, down or bow. Eventually she just gave up and walked off and laid down. SHe is very bright, and loves food but she gets really bothered about not getting things right. I was willing to reward her for the smallest thing, but something differnt than what she was offering. Do you think they will get better with time and practise, or should i just give up on the idea? I really need to build up ellies confidence to offer.

Don't worry, you'll be fine! I think this everytime i am about to go to a competition and everytime i get there i enjoy it. I don't know what kind of show you are entering, but i hav found that anything goes really. When i first started with meg i expected everyone to be really good, but actually (and this sounds awful) some dogs (usually non collies) just legged it out the ring after one jump! Can't really help you with points 1-4 however, 5) wear something comfortable, i just wear jeans and t-shirt (and jumper if cold. ) and astroturf trainers. Take a change of clothes in case its raining, discovered this at my first show, socks totally socked through all the way home - erugh!) 6) The good thing about competing is that you get to walk the course as many times as you can before you start. I usually go round once just working out the course and then a couple more times working out how i am going to run it. THen before i go in i watch a few competitors and just refresh my memory. Trust me my memory is awful so if i can manage it - you can! 7) If you really think that its going to be an issue you could enter NFC and use the toy, its better to start off with getting the dog happy to work in a ring away from training with a toy if you think the dog is going to have problems. You won't be able to get placed, but at least you know that you are one step closer to properly working! 8) are you kidding, hes a collie - he'll love jumping!! 9) take mobile phone with hospital number stored and phone from there? 10) at the uka shows i've entered they don't really worry about running orders you just line ujp and go. Haven't done any kc ones, but i'm told that you just line up when your number is called. At least your not first!! 11) absolutely, many dogs still need a hand through the weaves, as long as you aren't using food or toys in your hands (unless nfc). As long as the dog completes the weaves, entering on the right side i don't think it matters how you get him to do it! Trust me, its nerve racking, but fun. The beginners classes are always quite relaxed and nobody seems to stand there judging you. (well apart from the judge!) But don't forget everyones got to start somewhere! Last year i ran my springer and retriever for the first time (both started training in April and first comp in august/sept (I think) THey weren't exactly the best agilty dogs, but we went in to have fun (NFC) and they surprised me by at least trying to complete a round, i thought they'd just run off! We want to see pics when you've been!! He he, kirisox it looks like great minds think alike, we posted at the same time!!

I use "weave" for both weaving poles and weaving through my legs and so far i haven't had any problems. I am assuming that the actual context cue of an agility course and a set of weaving poles is enough to help her distinguish the difference. If truth be told it was the first thing that came into my head when teaching the leg weaving, and try as i might each time i meant to use a differnt command i just ended up saying weave instead!!

Just to let you know that we've cracked it! After another useless session with the lead over her nose, i eventually got frustrated. So i tried combining 2 different methods. My trainer just gently hold the tip of the dog's ear and they usually try and get her off with their paws. This alone didn't work with my dogs, so i combined it with gently blowing into their faces. (Note all is very gentle!) Immediate result! Within 5 minutes ellie was responding to the command "trouble" (as in - are you in trouble!) and actually offering it! Unfortunately none of these methods work for the spaniel as he isn't fazed by anything like that. But i'm so chuffed that ellie has got it! Strangely enough we had a really good session yesterday, because i also got megan to sit up and beg with her paws above her head! Its taken months because its not something she can naturally do. It just shows sometimes things just "click"!!

Yep thats what i'm getting, if i dont move the lead quickly she starts targetting it. ITs funny how differnt dogs are sometimes!

I am trying to teach my dogs to hide their faces with their paw, but don't seem to be getting anywhere. I have been clicker training for 4 years, so dogs aren't new to this and are generally know quite a few commands. I have mainly been focusing on training the retriever (nearly 3 years old) this command (Haven't done much with the collie and springer) but i don't seem to be getting anywhere. I have tried the mary ray blowing on the face technique which ellie hates and she just goes all submissive, so no go. Tried sticky tape, but ellie was so bothered trying to remove the sticky tape that she didnt really listen to the clicking. Lightly holding the end of her ear doesn't work either. (As my trainer uses.) I'm not really any good at pure shaping as i don't have the patience so usually try to lure the behaviour somehow. After going to a richard curtis seminar yesterday our latest technique is to put the loop of the lead around her nose, let her paw it off and click + treat at the approriate moment. But i can't seem to get that lightbulb moment where she actually realises what shes doing. After about 10 repetitions i don't put the lead on her nose, i just stand and wait, but she either just sits there and switches off (shes not the most driven of dogs) or offers a bow or a paw and then goes and lays down. I have been trying the combination of techniques at intervals over the last few months (although with quite large gaps inbetween because i tend to give up!) but i really want to work this one out. She picked up beg so quickly, she must be intelligent. DO you think i am expecting too much too soon, should i look for a different technique or should i just keep on with the lead one?

Murphy wasn't very interested in tennis balls to start with but he did have a passion for squeaky toys, so when i found a airkong squeaky tennis ball he got hooked. It looks like an ordinary tennis ball but it squeaks and he goes mad for it.

My thoughts exactly, gina, you kept that quiet!! Ahh, just found your website, how come you have such beautiful clever dogs!!

Murphy started flyball for the first time on thursday too! He was a little star! By the end of the session he would run to the end of the lane fetch a ball and come back to me. I was so pleased. Mind you hes not the sharpest tool in the box and to start with he kept falling over the hurdles, looking at me as if to say " who left these there, well what a silly place to leave them!"

I do agility with my 3, but am a useless handler! Meg has been doing it for 2 years and started competing last summer. She is an extremely fast collie, so keeping up with her is always an issue! Her KC name is Midnight Mystic Meg. We train twice a week and have free access to a full agility course. Ellie and Murphy both run for fun and have competed in nursery at uka once last year, but not being collies they aren't quite as interested! Ellies uka name is Dawnlight Golden Belle, (shes a goldie and we call her ellie belly!) and murphy's is Murphy's Irish Dream. (He was an irish rescue.)

What team are you in? I'm in the Hampshire Harriers with Meg.