lucyandmeg Posted April 9, 2006 Report Share Posted April 9, 2006 I have been doing agility with meg (wsd) for over 2 years now and did a few uka competition and a few local competitions last year. We never managed to get a clear round last year, but since our last competition in october last year we have been working really hard and she has improved her weaves and directional control so much i had really high hopes for this year. We had our first competition today and still no clear rounds. Meg is super fast and i have been told many times that she has real potential, yet i see people getting clear on their first competitions so where are we going wrong? Today she was making silly mistakes again, like going through the wrong end of the tunnel despite it being completly obvious which way she should go, and missing the entry to the weaves and running on. I know i shouldn't get frustrated as it is only fun, and i try to not show ho i feel to meg so she doesn't panic. The courses today were so incredibly straight forward, we work at novice courses at training and yet she couldn't even go clear in a beginners course. Oh well, trouble is she knows the differnce between traing and competitions, collies are too clever for their own good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest patch Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Dogs with an aptitude or preference for more complex courses will often blow off at a basic course, especially very fast dogs, so thats something to bear in mind My Defa finds basic courses very boring so he usually has a zoomy instead, but put him on something twisty and complicated and he absolutely shines - unfortunately we tend to get a fault or two on the complex courses because of my lack of balance and memory but he does exactly as I ask him, I just tend to ask him the wrong thing [ angles basically ] so while we dont technically get the clears, he gets clears in terms of what I`ve asked him to do by accident [ if you see what I mean ] So dont think about clears or places, think about the type of training you need to fine tune for the course level you are entering, and if necessary go back to basics a bit for the simpler courses while also working on distance cue`s as well for when a course is so simple your dog will be guaranteed to get a long way ahead of you because a dog which likes complex stuff will often try to make it up as they go along if they find the course so basic it almost as it its `beneath them` And you are right, they do know the difference between training and competition, not only are they clever enough for that but us handlers tend to walk in a comp ring very differently to a training one, we tend to be anything from anxious, to over confident, to trying to look calmer than we feel but trying so hard its all the more obvious to the dog so fails anyway, iow its often us as handlers that make it very different for our dogs so its no wonder things can go so wrong When I go in a ring these days, my attitude is, whatever happens will happen, and the more it goes wrong the more the people watching will get to have a laugh. Defa gets to play - he often tries to show judges how much better their course would be if they just did a few tweaks here and there and if he has a good time no matter what, then I have a good time and I know I walk into and out of the ring with the very best dog in the world. Its not our fault the judges dont put the obstacles to the same route we will take When it comes down to it, in years to come, when an agility dog is retired, or at rainbow bridge, what will the owners want as their memories - a dog they gave their all to, and had fun with, or bitter memories of feeling let down because this or that didnt go how they wanted ? Its a very easy trap to fall into, wishing ones own dog would do as well or better than the other dog/s, but they are not the dogs we all go home with and cuddle up to and play with and love. So does not getting a rosette or a place really matter in the scheme of things ? Something to think about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 The courses today were so incredibly straight forward, we work at novice courses at training and yet she couldn't even go clear in a beginners course. I hated Starters. I had a dog that got so excited he just would not wait in competition (of course he did in training). It seemed to me that there were only two types of Starter courses - either Jump - Weave, where he would be going so fast that he would run past the weaves or a long straight run of several jumps with a box at the end, where I would be left floundering several jumps behind and he would be bound to go the wrong way. Oh happy days. He did eventually win out of Starters, so there is hope. Just don't blame your dog when she goes wrong. You may think that she should know what to do, but most of the time it's handler error. Can you get someone to video some of your runs? It's not easy to know what you've done unless you can see for yourself. Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirisox Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 I have been doing agility with meg (wsd) for over 2 years now and did a few uka competition and a few local competitions last year. We never managed to get a clear round last year, but since our last competition in october last year we have been working really hard and she has improved her weaves and directional control so much i had really high hopes for this year. We had our first competition today and still no clear rounds. Meg is super fast and i have been told many times that she has real potential, yet i see people getting clear on their first competitions so where are we going wrong? Today she was making silly mistakes again, like going through the wrong end of the tunnel despite it being completly obvious which way she should go, and missing the entry to the weaves and running on. I know i shouldn't get frustrated as it is only fun, and i try to not show ho i feel to meg so she doesn't panic. The courses today were so incredibly straight forward, we work at novice courses at training and yet she couldn't even go clear in a beginners course. Oh well, trouble is she knows the differnce between traing and competitions, collies are too clever for their own good. I know how you feel, we had real weave issues for quite a long time (and still do with certain entries). Does she weave all the time at training? If not, is it only certain entries she finds tricky? As Jay is also a very quick dog, I had to work out how to get him in the weaves from far away, and where to be in order to do this. He also does not like being crowded. I found that if I moved before he had got into the 2nd pole he would be out, or go 1st and then 3rd pole. So I have to stand still, and then catch him up in the poles (which he loves and speeds him up) and it took a long time to 'feel' how long to stand for. For dogs who are fast into the weaves it is very hard to get them to realise it is fun to slow slightly and get in them in order to carry on with the rest of the game. I often see people whose dogs do not weave at shows and they just let the dog carry on. I personally always make sure he does the full set before (and if) I let him carry on. Be consistent. Does she ever go on 'autopilot' and just take whatever obstacle is in her path? If so, prevent her doing this and just put her in a down for a second to get her back under control. There are many dogs that seem to go clear all the time, but there are other dogs like Jay who are either brilliant or it all goes wrong. It can be frustrating but it is so exciting and so much fun to run him. I feel that Meg may be like that perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Potty Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Hi In your email you say: Today she was making silly mistakes again, like going through the wrong end of the tunnel despite it being completly obvious which way she should go, and missing the entry to the weaves and running on. What you should have written was: Today I was making silly mistakes again...... When things go wrong, rarely is it the dogs fault, normally it is the handlers. Its is very frustrating I know, but the dog is generally reacting to what the handler is - or isn't - doing. Part of the reason why dogs know when its competition is that the handler acts differently, which of course the dog picks up on. It can be very hard with a collie because everything all happens so fast that you have a very small margin for error. My best advice would be two things. First of all keep going to competitions, as many as you can. The more experience you both have the better you will both cope with it. Secondly try and get some one to one tuition from a trainer. Watch some of the more experienced handlers working, see which one's handling style you prefer and then approach them (not when they're about to run obviously ) and ask them if they do private lessons or teach at any clubs. Above all don't blame your dog - they are only trying to please you. Trouble is if our signals are not clear and at the right time then they have to guess what we want. If the dog is getting it wrong then so are you Don't get down hearted, we've all been there Soraya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucyandmeg Posted April 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 He he, i don't know how much clearer i could have been waving my left arm shouting "left tunnel" and screaming "no" when she shot past me to go to the far end. We'd even practised that in training on friday and she got the right end every time. The trouble is as you say kirisox is that she does on autopilot and does her own thing. We had this problem in training last year, whic hwe have fixed so that now i can pull her away from most obstacles, even stopped her going into the tunnel instead of the tyre last night. She gets so excited at competitions that she just swiches off occaisionally. I really don't believe there was anything handler wise that i could have done to prevent her going in the wrong end of the tunnel, i knew she would do it as soon as i walked the course! Waves has been a huge problem for us. She is doing them really well in training now, not so good on the right, but still a huge improvement. I have to hang back once she starts as if i getto close she starts to race and misses the last few poles as i think happened in the agilty. Last year we had big problems in competitions as she got stressed and wouldn't even attempt the weaves, so i suppose we have made sme improvement there. The more experience you both have the better you will both cope with it. Secondly try and get some one to one tuition from a trainer. We have a one to one session every week and a group lesson most weeks, and i have access to a field full of agility equipment any time i want. So its not for lack of trying! Thanks for the advice guys. I feel a little happier about things now, i was just feeling so confident when i walked the course as i knew she would fly round it in training, as we have come on so well since last year, famous last words. I do think she is better on the more advanced courses though as she tends to just get up speed on the simpler ones. Hey ho, our next proper show is end of april, so i'll le you know how we get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 He he, i don't know how much clearer i could have been waving my left arm shouting "left tunnel" and screaming "no" when she shot past me to go to the far end. But what was the rest of your body doing? Every part of your body is relevant to indicating to the dog which was to go, not just the arms.(Well, maybe not every part....) I do sympathise - I once stood right in front of a tunnel entrance to block it off but Ross barged right through my legs to go through it anyway. However, I suspect that it was because I was so intent on blocking him that I didn't pay enough attention to directing him where to go instead. Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Potty Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Me again This is the damning sentence: I really don't believe there was anything handler wise that i could have done to prevent her going in the wrong end of the tunnel, i knew she would do it as soon as i walked the course! Self programming! We are all guilty of it. There is a very good book by Chris Smith I recommend you read if you haven't already. Its all about mind set and attitude when competing. Its not a very thick book and easy to read - not boring at all. If you expected your dog to do the wrong thing then she surely obliged I used to do the same thing, so I can sympathise. Good luck with your competitions the rest of the year Soraya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyndaTaylor Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 I'd say find a really good trainer who will train you how to handle a fast dog, concentrating on your skills rather than your dogs. Lynda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-dog Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 I would definately suggest you get someone to video record a few runs. I did this at my last show, I couldn't understand where I was going wrong.......until I watched the video, and it all became horribly clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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