dibs Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 For several months I have been working on a project to try and offer some sort of counter balance against councils who introduce dog bans and restrictions. Early days and a long haul ahead but about 10 days ago I went public to the councils about it and it went on my website a few days ago. Several councils have got back to me so far, some positively and a lot are in discussions internally about the idea. It will need a lot of work and a lot of tweaking to get right but I had to start somewhere. DNB are aware and I believe in support of the idea. Will keep you posted but after I took part in a live radio debate with a councillor who wants to ban breeds I worry people who don't know anything about dogs will be making decisions. I plan a press campaign once the rest of the councils have had a chance to respond. If anyone would like to help you could ask your area councillor to ask about the project at their next meeting thanks Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie No Dots Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 (edited) Whats the project entail debbie? Edited to add...just looked at your site. I dont actually agree with it, im sorry I think its likely to open the floodgates on control orders and possible council breed bans. Edited September 22, 2007 by Allie No Dots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibs Posted September 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 (edited) Allie you are entitled to disagree, anyone is. I don't understand though why you think it would open the floodgates. A lot of councils are already imposing control orders and some are looking at how to ban breeds including one in my area. The legislation isn't there yet but some are trying to get it. If we do nothing and have no way of proving an individual dog is not a problem, how do we fight these things? If you had heard the comments by the councillor here on the radio you would understand why I chose to put this forward now. It's no good waiting until something happens and having no back up. I am encouraged by some of the responses from councils, there are some sensible people out there. Anyone who is interested can ask me for info, I am hoping to meet with the first ones very soon. dibs Edited September 23, 2007 by dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumpole Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 (edited) Personally i think that we should be strongly opposing the introduction of any breed bans, and not suggesting ideas as to how they should be implemented, councils already have enough ideas without us making it easy for them or putting ideas where there were none before. we are fortunate at the moment that the only person seemingly interested in bringing in a breed ban is a welsh mp whose knowledge of dogs consists of calling rottweilers "those black and brown dogs" and who openly confesses to having no knowledge of the current laws regarding dogs, id prefer to fight him alone i think. i realise that what you are planning has the dogs bestt interests at heart should a ban be introduced but im sorry i cant support it as i really feel we would be poking a stick in a hornets nest Edited September 23, 2007 by Rumpole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibs Posted September 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 As I said, I take all your comments on board. Yes it was a welsh mp who called Rotties those "black and orange dogs". I can't say much about what I am hearing from some other councils, some has been told to me in confidence, but I want to offer at least education if nothing else. dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumpole Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 what about the dogs though that are rescues traumatised by their pasts that because of issues would not pass such a test should that happen here i would have to have three of my dogs pts yet all have lived with me safely for ten plus years, and im sure there are many more fugees dogs that would be in the same situation, the temperament of the dog is in my book secondary to the responsibility/knowledge of the owner. as i said above that should a breed ban be enforced that yes that may be the way to go, though even then i would want to know more before supporting any ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibs Posted September 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Rumpole that's no problem. Dogs are not expected to be perfect and there is training, help and exceptions built into this for any dog who can't pass initially. It is complicated and I understand your reservations. It is as much about the owners of course than the dogs and their own education. I want the councils and other organisations to help develop this so that we all get what we want. I have done rescue in all sorts of capacities myself, I do understand dogs with issues. I don't want to fail dogs, I want to prove to the councils and others that no breed or individual dog is inherently bad and even if a dog has problems to start with, training for dog and the owner can get rid of it in most cases. If you or anyone has any thoughts about what you think the test should be like please email them to me. It isn't set in stone and the more people put ideas forward the better it would be. Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 And who would administer these tests? A council functionary with a checklist? Or someone with a comprehensive knowledge of dogs able to interpret what they are seeing? Not many of those about. Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibs Posted September 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 That's just one of the things that is to be decided. Tests are only as good as the people interpreting them. There is no point in anyone who hasn't a clue trying to pass or fail a dog or person. If you have any ideas about how to identify the right people to administer tests, please email ideas to me. Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie No Dots Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Allie you are entitled to disagree, anyone is. I don't understand though why you think it would open the floodgates. Will explain In most areas joe public is mixed when it comes to control orders. They are either for them (non doggy people) Against them (us lot lol ) or you have the "ooo im not really sure" guys. Those are the ones (like my neighbours!) who have dogs, like dogs, but also dont see what harm it will do stopping dogs going to the local fields off lead ect. If the idea of exempting dogs based on behaviour tests was put forward more people would possibly agree with control orders and council bans. This would mean more are likely to come in and when something like that starts to happen it spreads like a plague and changes form. Exactly the same as BSL. We already have enough laws to *control* dogs. We do not need more. Instead of councils putting in place dog control orders ect, why dont they just pay for more park wardens ect who can actually see who doesnt pick up after their dog or allow their dog to misbehave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumpole Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 (edited) Dogs are not expected to be perfect and there is training, help and exceptions built into this for any dog who can't pass initially. It is as much about the owners of course than the dogs and their own education. I don't want to fail dogs, I want to prove to the councils and others that no breed or individual dog is inherently bad and even if a dog has problems to start with, training for dog and the owner can get rid of it in most cases. If you or anyone has any thoughts about what you think the test should be like please email them to me. It isn't set in stone and the more people put ideas forward the better it would be. Dibs as i said three of my dogs would not pass, not just initially, full stop they would fail, all have already undergone behaviour training over the years and it was recommended that all were not to be rehomed, yet not one of them has ever been allowed to get into any trouble of any sort, some dogs cannot be retrained as due to the trauma they have suffered they carry lifelong issues ie men in hats, people wearing glasses we in order to keep them safe have to spot these issues and deal with them as best we can but we cannot always eradicate them owners well im far more in favour of behaviour and temperament tests on them im afraid in suggesting temperament tests on dogs imho it is admitting that thats where the problem lies and not at the other end of the lead meaning a complety muppet can be in charge of a huge mastiff withy no knowledge common sense or experience as long as at the time the test was taken it was a softy i have taken in a few dogs from criminal cases who both show and attack on a word any of those dogs would pass a temperament test unless you said the magic word and none are them are dangerous the owner with the key to unleash them is the dangerous one I don't want to fail dogs, I want to prove to the councils and others that no breed or individual dog is inherently bad and even if a dog has problems to start with, training for dog and the owner can get rid of it in most cases. " in most cases " i repeat three of my dogs would die im sorry but i dont have any suggestions as to what should be included in the tests as i dont think there should be tests, not on the dogs anyway i think people should be able to prove they can look after a dog and understand their chosen breeds requirements before buying a dog in the first place Edited September 23, 2007 by Rumpole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyMalc Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 That's just one of the things that is to be decided. Tests are only as good as the people interpreting them. There is no point in anyone who hasn't a clue trying to pass or fail a dog or person.If you have any ideas about how to identify the right people to administer tests, please email ideas to me. Dibs I really think that this is a matter that should be decided before councils get involved. Currently "breed assessors" are people within the police force who have done a 2 week course FFS! Also the quality of trainers differs vastly. I've walked out of a KC affiliated club because I was absolutely disgusted with the methods of one of the trainers. I was also less than impressed with another one, and he was the club's behaviourist! Ideally we'd clone Roger Mugford, but that might pose a slight practical problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie No Dots Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Another point.. Piper is a mess mentally shes the dog that shouldnt exist imho but she does and i love her to bits. But piper has a different *thing* every few months. She wouldnt leave the house, then hated the dark, then didnt do doors, wouldnt go upstairs. The latest is she has to get under anything that she thinks she can get under! lol Shes a canine freak. She may pass any test one day and the next decide she thinks all cars /dogs/people whatever are really aliens from another planet. I would never allow piper to be *tested* because its will cause more problems then she needs. What about pups too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Whilst some may not approve of some of the methods this club uses (eg the use of check chains) there is a club in the East Riding which has been operating such a scheme for years - see link and ERYC tests http://www.ryehilldogtraining.co.uk/ As far as I'm aware there have been no proposals for breed bans in this area. The tests are administered by the club with perhaps external help in judging by people from one of the local dog rescues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie No Dots Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Whilst some may not approve of some of the methods this club uses (eg the use of check chains) there is a club in the East Riding which has been operating such a scheme for years - see link and ERYC tests http://www.ryehilldogtraining.co.uk/ As far as I'm aware there have been no proposals for breed bans in this area. The tests are administered by the club with perhaps external help in judging by people from one of the local dog rescues. Thats no different from the KC good citizen from what i see. Anyone can do these tests if they so wish too and good on them. But not in conjunction with control orders or breed bans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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