cycas Posted December 24, 2006 Report Share Posted December 24, 2006 (edited) Today we were at a beach: it was a busy day, lots of people out with their families and dogs, and Mollydog and Az had a great time racing each other, socialising with strange dogs and hanging out with my mum's dogs. As we were coming back up the beach, we saw a blur approaching us, which eventually resolved into an 8 month old whippet. She raced round us, and Az took off after her. He started with his usual prancing, but she was a lot quicker than him, and soon he was running flat out after her. Molly had been watching all this and decided to join in : little whippet was I think slower than her, but more manoeverable, so able to stay ahead, but they were closing, and it started to look like they were really hunting her. All of us watching were starting to get alarmed and her owners asked if my dogs were OK with others. I called off Mollydog (Mollydog always comes when I call (well, unless there's a bin-bag)). And after a few more extremely long seconds when I was envisaging just how much damage he could do the whippet if he caught it, I managed to get Az back as well. Small Whippet was not at all worried, came galloping in for bum-sniffs and clearly was keen to resume the game, but we all agreed it had got a bit too scary. Were we right? Should we have stopped it earlier? Is it safe for a small whippet to play with a greyhound x whippet (Az) and an ex-racing greyhound (Mollydog) ? Mollydog will usually play nicely with even tiny dogs, and she usually likes to be the one who is chased: Az would really like to take turns with chasing and being chased, but Mollydog won't allow that (Mollydog must always be the winner of every race, and any dog that tries to overtake her gets a stern non-contact telling off). So this was a bit unusual for her because the chase had already started when she joined in and she was chasing not being chased. Az is also good with other dogs, but he's a bit of a nightmare with deer, and he has bitten a deer badly enough to draw blood: he will also chase and grab black and white cats if he gets the chance. Mollydog and Az are both usually good with other dogs, and neither so far as I know has ever bitten another dog or done anything more aggressive than telling a rude dog to bog off. Edited December 24, 2006 by cycas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LurcherGirl Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 I have two saluki lurchers (one saluki x whippet x deerhound - probably... and the other saluki x collie). I do not let our dogs approach other dogs together because they approach at a 100 mph and if the other dog starts running, they chase it; this will turn into proper coursing if the other dog does not stop running. The only time I let our lurchers play totally free with other dogs is when they are muzzled. They are safe then and can't cause any harm. I don't know about your two hounds, but - as with most sighthounds - a play chase can very quickly turn into a serious hunting chase that is very unpleasant and even dangerous for the other dog. So I do think you have done the right thing by calling your dogs off when you did. Vera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted December 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 (edited) I've decided I need to start making Az wear a muzzle sometimes: he caught a squirrel today. He is a very gentle boy but the chase does seem to have quite a call for him. I used to muzzle Mollydog when I first had her, but her chase instinct really is almost nonexistent, and I think she has lulled me into a false sense of security about other sighthounds! That was why I posted really, it's useful to hear about how your dogs behave so I can compare, thanks. I don't allow them to zoom up to other dogs (well, OK, they have done it, but they aren't supposed to) I am still working on keeping them back and to heel, they are now pretty reliable, though I have to be wary when they first arrive and are all excited, so sometimes I'll put Az on lead at that point if there are other dogs milling round. I do allow them to approach other offlead dogs and greet them if the dogs look friendly, and play chase as long as the other dogs don't look alarmed. But this time it was the other way round: it was the whippet that came steaming in among us, and she really seemed to want to be chased. I've encountered that with collies quite a few times, but collies are kind of hairy and robust , whereas a whippet seems so little and breakable! Edited December 28, 2006 by cycas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going to the dogs Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Whippets are not as fragile as they look and are quite feisty. I think that the one you met was fine and just enjoying the chase. My sighthounds have wonderful chases and sometimes it looks a little alarming and sounds worse but it's just fun. But there are enough of them not to have to bother with other dogs. And dogs usually know the difference between another dog and a rabbit/hare/fox. But if you are worried, a muzzle will sort the problem out. The plastic-coated wire ones are as light as a feather and dogs don't usually mind wearing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brindlebabe Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Our chase each other all the time, well Izz and Molly chase Fin! It sounds dreadful and saliva flies about but they don't hurt each other. We only let Molly say hello to dogs as she's is gentle and stops well before she gets to them, tail wagging and in obvious delight. Fin is ok after introduction and Izz too, but three dogs hurling up to a strange dog is unacceptable. Your encounter sounds like one of those rare times where they have a chance encounter with a kindred spirit. Congratulations on getting Mollydog and Az back! The whippets we know around here are a bit wimpy, so we exercise caution. Your one sounded really fit and happy to be chased. If Az is ok with wearing a muzzle, for peace of mind it mind be worth getting one. We do use one occasionally with Izz if she gets too silly and have one for Fin, but he hated it so we usually lead him up as he has issues with some male dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Rescue Lover Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 I had a very similar problem a couple of days ago. We took 3 of our dogs to the beach (well, ones a foster) - 2 greys and a lurcher with a whole crowd of people and a variety of different dogs. My grey and lurcher were off lead on the beach and enjoying chasing, being chased, running in and out of the water and just plodding by my side. They were fine for about 1 1/2 hours, then one of the dogs in the pack (young and small lurcher) decided he wanted to play and have a chase across the beach. My two followed him and all were having a great time, but then I noticed that my 2 seemed to have changed their attitude and it was more like a hunt. They bowled the youngster over who then started to squeal. Well, Annie decided it would be fun to pin him down and was so excited that I had to call her off for fear that she would hurt him (she was muzzled because part of the walk is through woods and I didn't want her catching any squirrels and because she does get very excited when chasing other dogs). The little lurcher was fine, got up and shook himself down and then continued to run around playing. I put Annie back on lead at this point because she was still excited and she needed to calm down a bit. When my 3 play, because they're all quite sturdy and big, it doesn't matter if they barge into each other because they can stand it. But when they do it to a smaller dog, it goes flying. I shall certainly keep a closer eye on Annie in the future and she certainly isn't allowed off lead without a muzzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Canis-Equus~ Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 Scabbyabby sometimes has to be called off.... partly cos shes not realising yet that shes an OAP and will overdo it... And partly because she will HUNT, although im 99% certain shes well aware its a game and not for real, she takes it further than other dogs enjoy. Shes fine with dogs who politely tell her to eff off cos shes not funny, but dogs who do become worried and curl up in a ball she keeps them there on the floor. Not physically pinned, but mentally..... she wont let them get up, if they do, she chases them down again and keeps them down. To her, its a fantastic laugh and shes EVEN done this to my cat (oh was THAT a heart in mouth moment), fortunately he had the sense to stay down and not move! I think had i allowed her to do this from day one, she probably would have injured someone. I didnt though, and shes learned to PLAY, and now its less of a risk because it is just a game. Shes even played with tiny yorkies, and whilst i do think that in the heat of the moment whilst running they can forget its a game, it only takes a yip or a snarl for them to come back to reality and realise its another dog they are playing with, not a rabbit. This doesnt cover all dogs and certainly not ex racers who havent yet learned to curb the chase-hunt-bring down- kill scenario into 'chase-hunt-play'. I think its slightly LESS of a risk with lurchers as most workers have been brought up to recognise some stock and other dogs from prey (blummin useless worker if it cant be trusted iwth terriers and stock!). Not all will have been, but a great many will and a great many more can be trained to recognise the difference (taht being the whole point of the lurcher!). Wise however, to call a halt to things when they get a bit silly though, definately. Dont forget though, a muzzle wont prevent injury, just biting. Abby can scare the living daylights out of a small wimpy dog wihtout ever opening her mouth, if she DID start to bash at a small dog with a muzzle on, or she tripped a whippet going full speed, she could cause injury quite easily. Em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted January 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 This doesnt cover all dogs and certainly not ex racers who havent yet learned to curb the chase-hunt-bring down- kill scenario into 'chase-hunt-play'. I'm not sure about that, from my limited experience with Mollydog (who is an ex-racer). She has never had any sign of a chase instinct that goes beyond grab-bite, and rarely even that. Her drive to chase is much less than that of Az (lurcher) and the reason she likes playing running games is that she has a strong will to 'win' - she is motivated by the other dogs running behind her, not by chasing what is in front. She likes applause, and for people to point and say 'Wow, what a fast dog that is'. If you think about it, the opportunity of a typical racing dog to catch and kill prey is surely almost non-existent, so I am not sure why their grab-bite-kill-bite would necessarily be more developed than that of a lurcher. Mollydog is, obviously The Best Dog In the World, so probably not typical but I'm not sure about the general idea that lurchers are necessarily going to be less likely to cause trouble in a chasing situation. I was a lot more worried about Az in the situation I described above: Mollydog is bigger, but she keeps her brain engaged mostly, whereas most of the time I get the impression that Az is thinking purely with his legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Canis-Equus~ Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Good point..... I dont think it is necessarily stronger, but i think they are less used to the concept of 'play' than other dogs. Scabbers is a daft old moo but she has even learned that my cat is not fair game - other ones are though... Sspose it just depends on the dog, not all ex racers are completely devoid of the concept of play, not all ex working lurchers are stock adn other animal trained.... Em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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