Do You Think I Should Vaccinate My Dog

[agilitymad]

Please can someone advice me on what to do for the best.

 

Last year Lucky was very ill and we nearly lost him he had to have a granulated cycoma removed from the inside of his back leg, which was coursed by a forign object but nothing was found so the vets thought he was maybe bitten by a bug of some kind even a tick, so he had been treated for limes disease but nothing was confurmed. After all of this he was left with some Liver damage which has been treated and also a low white cell count even when he is un-well its only just noramal if that makes any sence.

 

Lucky was vaccinated last year a few months after he was feeling better but has not been 100% right since we nearly lost him last year.

 

This morning Lucky again is very un-well he has been at the vets allday on a drip which has really stressed him out since being home has been sick and smells really bad. bless him

 

my question is would you vaccinate him if he was your dog? He does do Flyball and Agility and is out and about most days with other dogs so would hate for him to get anything or pass something on.

 

sorry for the long thread but need to have all the facts as he needs vacc in December.

 

thanks Agilitymad

[Houndwoman]

If your dog is unwell or it's immune system is compromised in any way he/she should not be vaccinated.

 

Vets know this but some seem to ignore it and I personally think it is very unwise to ignore it.

 

We have had numerous dogs over the years and haven't vaccinated for around 17 years.

 

Take a look at this site, it may help you decide what to do. Link

[alexis]

In humans it is not always the case that you should never vaccinate people with compromised immune systems. In some cases vaccination is recommended because the chance of harm from the vaccine is much much smaller than the chance of catching whatever disease you are vaccinating against e.g it is recommended that you vaccinate immunocompromised children (including those under 2) as well as adults with the pneumoccocal vaccine to prevent pneumonia which would probably be fatal. Immunocompromised people are also sometimes given the flu vaccine for the same reasons.

People who have had bone marrow transplants will be immunocompromised and are advised to have some vaccinations but not others.

 

Even with neutropenia the immune system will function , although not quite as well and I know at least in humans it depends very much on how low the white blood cell count is as unless it is extremely low the immune system copes remarkably well in responding to any possible infection. There are some vaccines that should not be given to immunocompromised patients, mostly the live vaccines.

 

So basically I would ask the vets advice. It is not always black and white.

If you like I can ask one of my friends who is a vet for her opinion.

 

I am afraid I don't like the site you have been given but that's my opinion. I find it extremely biased and it is not very scientific ( in fact a lot of the science on there is incorrect and misleading) and is written to shock and overwhelm people without giving people the chance to understand the basic science properly and take in both sides and make up their own minds. I'm not saying that vaccines don't have problems but you cannot in any way say that vaccines cause most of the illnessess around today as many people who are anti vaccination claim.

 

there has been some evidence to suggest that in fact vaccination has not increased the overall amount of illness at all e.g

Vaccination and ill-health in dogs: a lack of temporal association and evidence of equivalence; D S Edwards, W E Henley, E R Ely and J L N Wood, Vaccine Journal, Volume 22/25-26, September 2004.

 

You cant rely on surveys as good quality research, most are not even worth carrying out for scientific benefit.

 

 

a site with a bit more explanation of how the immune system works

http://www.thepetcenter.com/exa/vac.html

 

I think dogs do probably get vaccinated too often but that doesn't mean we shouldn't vaccinate at all

Edited November 20, 2006 by alexis

[Houndwoman]

In humans it is not always the case that you should never vaccinate people with compromised immune systems. In some cases vaccination is recommended because the chance of harm from the vaccine is much much smaller than the chance of catching whatever disease you are vaccinating against e.g it is recommended that you vaccinate immunocompromised children (including those under 2) as well as adults with the pneumoccocal vaccine to prevent pneumonia which would probably be fatal. Immunocompromised people are also sometimes given the flu vaccine for the same reasons.

People who have had bone marrow transplants will be immunocompromised and are advised to have some vaccinations but not others.

 

Even with neutropenia the immune system will function , although not quite as well and I know at least in humans it depends very much on how low the white blood cell count is as unless it is extremely low the immune system copes remarkably well in responding to any possible infection. There are some vaccines that should not be given to immunocompromised patients, mostly the live vaccines.

 

So basically I would ask the vets advice. It is not always black and white.

If you like I can ask one of my friends who is a vet for her opinion.

 

I am afraid I don't like the site you have been given but that's my opinion. I find it extremely biased and it is not very scientific ( in fact a lot of the science on there is incorrect and misleading) and is written to shock and overwhelm people without giving people the chance to understand the basic science properly and take in both sides and make up their own minds. I'm not saying that vaccines don't have problems but you cannot in any way say that vaccines cause most of the illnessess around today as many people who are anti vaccination claim.

 

there has been some evidence to suggest that in fact vaccination has not increased the overall amount of illness at all e.g

Vaccination and ill-health in dogs: a lack of temporal association and evidence of equivalence; D S Edwards, W E Henley, E R Ely and J L N Wood, Vaccine Journal, Volume 22/25-26, September 2004.

 

You cant rely on surveys as good quality research, most are not even worth carrying out for scientific benefit.

a site with a bit more explanation of how the immune system works

http://www.thepetcenter.com/exa/vac.html

 

I think dogs do probably get vaccinated too often but that doesn't mean we shouldn't vaccinate at all

 

 

If you are referring to the link I provided then yes they will appear biased I suppose, but then they are anti vaccination because of their concerns about the adverse reactions to some animals due to vaccination. Catherine O'Driscoll has personally experienced adverse reactions in her own dogs with dire consequences so I am not surprised she has taken this stance. She has absolutely no interest in any financial gain from this campaign, she just wants people to know the risks so that they can make their own decisions about the welfare of their animals.

She is just one of a growing band of people who are prepared to stand up for honest debate on this and prepared to stand up to the almighty pharmaceutical companies who are driven by huge profits to keep their shareholders happy. She expects to be ridiculed and slated but she's a tough lady who can take it than goodness.

 

Where do you find that she gives misleading information? I am sure that if you doubt anything she has said or written she would be very happy to debate it with you and explain why she runs this campaign.

 

I used to be so very pro vaccination but due to many experiences over the years and opening my mind up I have completely turned the other way. That is my personal stance on it and think that everyone should have every bit of information available to them instead of being led down one path.

I don't think having that knowledge is wrong, it just helps people to make their own minds up.

 

Btw I can pretty well guess what your friend's opinion will be, I don't imagine he/she will agree with anything that Catherine O'Driscoll says.

Edited November 21, 2006 by Houndwoman

[Muriel]

Totally agree with Houndwoman.

 

Even the vaccine manufacturers state that only animals who are 100% well should have vaccines and that at most they should be done every three years, but that in fact, most vaccs last for the life of the animal. They just fail to widely publicise that as it would mean a massive drop in income and of course the vets like that nice little earner every year too.

 

There was a thread on here just last week with several people stating they had dogs die after vaccs.

 

Here are a load of links with lots of information, have a read and make up your own mind.

 

http://www.healthy.net/asp/templates/artic...icle&ID=485

 

Vaccination in Animals

 

© International Vaccination Newsletter

Let's start with a potpourri of opinion - a selection of vets who believe vaccines are damaging our dogs. The April / May 1995 issue of the exellent Wolf Clan Magazine Collected a cacaphony:

Charles E Loops, DVM, Pittsboro, USA said: "The first thing that must change with routine vaccinations is the myth that vaccines are not harmful. Veterinarians and animal guardians have to come to realise that they are not protecting animals from disease by annual vaccinations, but in fact, are destroying the health and immune systems of these same animals they love and care for"...........

 

Vaccine links

 

http://www.weim.net/homeovet/vaccstories.htm

 

http://www.healthy.net/asp/templates/artic...icle&ID=485

 

http://www.natural-akita.com/JPTeez/html/reactions.html

 

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/petvacc2.htm

 

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/VACCINE1.HTM

 

http://cyberpet.com/cyberdog/articles/health/vaccin.htm

 

http://www.weim.net/homeovet/English/Vaccine.htm

 

http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/

 

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/petvacc.htm

 

http://www.thinktwice.com/animal.htm

 

http://www.dogstory.net/urkillingyourpets.htm

 

 

 

And this by one of the most respected vet around, and yes, she's a 'scientific' one who you would expect to be supporting them, but she has sense enough to see the evidence in front of her own eyes.

 

Vaccine Protocols for Dogs Predisposed to Vaccine Reactions

 

W Jean Dodds DVM

 

 

Dr Jean Dodds is the woman who told the truth about vaccines to dog lovers. A member of the scientific community, Dr Dodds clearly felt that dog owners had a right to know the truth so that they could make informed and wise decisions. We all owe Dr Dodds a huge, enormous, debt of gratitude. The following paper was published in the Journal of the American Animal Hospital Association (37: 1-4, 2001).

 

There is increasing evidence in veterinary medicine that vaccines can trigger immune-mediated and other chronic disorders (i.e., vaccinosis), especially in certain apparently predisposed breeds (1-6). Accordingly, clinicians need to be aware of this potential and offer alternative approaches for preventing infectious diseases in these animals. Such alternatives to current vaccine practices include: measuring serum antibody titers; avoidance of unnecessary vaccines or overvaccinating; and using caution in vaccinating ill, geriatric, debilitated or febrile individuals, and animals from breeds or families known to be at increased risk for immunological reactions (3,5-8).

 

 

Adverse Effects of Vaccines

 

As the most commonly recognized adverse effect of vaccination is an immediate hypersensitivity or anaphylactic reaction, practitioners are less familiar with the more rare but equally serious acute or chronic immune-mediated syndromes that can occur. The veterinary profession and vaccine industry have traditionally emphasized the importance of giving a series of vaccinations to young animals to prevent infectious diseases, to the extent that this practice is considered routine and is generally safe for the majority of animals. Few clinicians are prepared, therefore, for encountering an adverse event and may overlook or even deny the possibility.

 

Beyond the immediate hypersensitivity reactions, other acute events tend to occur 24 to 72 hours afterward, or 7 to 45 days later in a delayed type immunological response (1,6,9,10). Even more delayed adverse effects include mortality from high-titered measles vaccine in infants, canine distemper antibodies in joint diseases of dogs, and feline injection-site fibrosarcomas (3,11). The increasing antigenic load presented to the host individual by modified-live virus (MLV) vaccines is presumed to be responsible for the immunological challenge that can result in a delayed hypersensitivity reaction (6,9).

 

The clinical signs associated with nonanaphylactic vaccine reactions typically include fever, stiffness, sore joints and abdominal tenderness, susceptibility to infections, neurological disorders and encephalitis, autoimmune hemolytic anemia (AIHA) resulting in icterus, or immune-mediated thrombocytopenia (ITP) resulting in petechiae and ecchymotic hemorrhage (1-4,9,10,12,15). Hepatic enzymes may be markedly elevated, and liver or kidney failure may occur by itself or accompany bone-marrow suppression (3). Furthermore, MLV vaccination has been associated with the development of transient seizures in puppies and adult dogs of breeds or crossbreeds susceptible to immune-mediated diseases, especially those involving hematological or endocrine tissues (e.g., AIHA, ITP, autoimmune thyroiditis) (1-3). Postvaccinal polyneuropathy is a recognized entity associated occasionally with the use of distemper, parvovirus, rabies and possibly other vaccines (3,6,9). This can result in various clinical signs, including muscular atrophy, inhibition or interruption of neuronal control of tissue and organ function, in-coordination, and weakness (3). Therefore, we have the responsibility to advise companion animal breeders and caregivers of the potential for genetically susceptible littermates and relatives that are at increased risk for similar adverse vaccine reactions (1-5).

 

Commercial vaccines, on rare occasion, can also be contaminated with other adventitious viral agents (6,16) which can produce significant untoward effects such as occurred when a commercial canine parvovirus vaccine was contaminated by blue tongue virus. It produced abortion and death when given to pregnant dogs (16) and was linked casually to the ill-advised but all-too-common practice of vaccinating pregnant animals. The potential for side effects such as promotion of chronic disease sites in male and nonpregnant female dogs receiving this lot of vaccine remains in question, although there have been anecdotal reports of reduced stamina and renal dysfunction in performance sled dogs (3). Recently, a vaccine manufacturer had to recall all biological producs containing a distemper component, because they were associated with a higher-than-expected rate of central nervous system postvaccinal reactions 1 to 2 weeks following administration (3).

 

If, as a profession, we conclude that we are overvaccinating, other issues come to bare, such as the needless client dollars spent on vaccines, despite the well-intentioned solicitation of clients to encourage annual booster vaccinations so that pets also can receive a wellness examination (5). Giving annual boosters when they are not necessary has the client paying for a service which is likely to be of little benefit to the pet’s existing level of protection against these infectious diseases. It also increases the risk of adverse reactions from the repeated exposure to foreign substances.

 

Polyvalent MLV vaccines, which multiply in the host, elicit a stronger antigenic challenge to the animal and should mount a more effective and sustained immune response (5,6,9). However, this can overwhelm the immunocompromised or even healthy host that has ongoing exposure to other environmental stimuli as well as a genetic predisposition that promotes adverse response to viral challenge (1-3,9,13). The recently weaned young puppy or kitten being placed in a new environment may be at particular risk. Furthermore, while the frequency of vaccinations is usually spaced 2 to 3 weeks apart, some veterinarians have advocated vaccination once a week in stressful situations. This practice makes little sense, scientifically or medically (5).

 

An augmented immune response to vaccination is seen in dogs with pre-existing inhalant allergies (i.e., atopy) to pollens (3). Furthermore, the increasing current problems with allergic and immunological diseases have been linked to the introduction of MLV vaccines more than 20 years ago (6). While other environmental factors no doubt have a contributing role, the introduction of these vaccine antigens and their environmental shedding may provide the final insult that exceeds the immunological tolerance threshold of some individuals in the pet population.

 

 

Predisposed Breeds

 

Twenty years ago, this author began studying families of dogs with an apparent increased frequency of immune-mediated hematological disease (i.e., AIHA, ITP, or both) (12). Among the more commonly recognised predisposed breeds were the Akita, American Cocker Spaniel, German Shepherd Dog, Golden Retriever, Irish Setter, Great Dane, Kerry Blue Terrier and all Dachshund and Poodle varieties; but predisposition was found especially in the Standard Poodle, Long-Haired Dachshund, Old English Sheepdog, Scottish Terrier, Shetland Sheepdog, Shih Tzu, Vizsla, and Weimaraner, as well as breeds of white or predominantly white coat colour or with coat colour dilution (e.g., blue and fawn Doberman Pinschers, the merle Collie, Australian Shepherd, Shetland Sheepdog, and harlequin Great Dane) (1-3). Recently, other investigators have noted the relatively high frequency of AIHA, ITP or both in American Cocker Spaniels (10) and Old English Sheepdogs (13).

 

A significant proportion of these animals had been vaccinated with monovalent or polyvalent vaccines within the 30-45 day period prior to the onset of their autoimmune disease (1,2,10). Furthermore, the same breeds listed above appear to be more susceptible to other adverse vaccine reactions, particularly postvaccinal seizures, high fevers, and painful episodes of hypertrophic ostedystrophy (HOD) (3). For animals that have experienced an adverse vaccine reaction, the recommendation is often to refrain from vaccinating these animals until at least after puberty, and instead to measure serological antibody titers against the various diseases for which vaccination has been given. This recommendation raises an issue with the legal requirement for rabies vaccination. As rabies vaccines are strongly immunogenic and are known to elicit adverse neurological reaction (3,5) it would be advisable to postpone rabies vaccination for such cases. A letter from the primary care veterinarian stating the reason for requesting a waiver of rabies vaccination for puppies or adults with documented serious adverse vaccine reactions should suffice.

 

As further examples, findings from the author’s large accumulated database of three susceptible breeds are summarized below.

 

 

Vaccine-Associated Disease in Old English Sheepdogs

 

Old English Sheepdogs appear to be predisposed to a variety of autoimmune diseases (1-3,13). Of these, the most commonly seen are AIHA, ITP, thyroiditis, and Addison’s disease (2,17). Between 1980 and 1990, this author studied 162 cases of immune-mediated hematological diseases in this breed. One-hundred twenty-nine of these cases had AIHA, ITP, or both as a feature of their disease. Vaccination within the previous 30 days was the only identified triggering event in seven cases and was an apparent contributing factor in another 115 cases (2). Thyroid disease was recognized as either a primary or secondary problem in 71 cases, which is likely an under-estimate of the true incidence, as thyroid function tests were not run or were inconclusive in most of the other cases.

 

Experience with a particular Old English Sheepdog family supported a genetic predisposition to autoimmune thyroiditis, Addison’s disease, and AIHA or ITP or both - an example of the polyglandular autoimmune (2,17). Pedigrees were available from 108 of the 162 Old English Sheepdog cases of autoimmune disease; a close relationship was found among all but seven of the affected dogs (2). Two of three pedigrees available from the studies of Day and Penhale (13) were also related to this large North American study group.

 

 

 

Vaccine-Associated Disease in Young Akitas

 

Akitas are also subject to a variety of immune-mediated disorders, including Vogt-Koyanagi-Harada syndrome (VKH), pemphigus, and heritable juvenile-onset immune-mediated polyarthritis (IMPA) (3,14). Juvenile-onset IMPA occurs in Akitas less than 8months of age. Of 11 closely related puppies in the author’s case series, the mean age of onset was 14 weeks (3). Initial signs appeared 3 to 29 days following vaccination with polyvalent MLV or killed virus or both, with a mean reaction time of 14 days. All had profound joint pain and cyclic febrile illness lasting 24 to 48 hours. Hemograms revealed mild nonregenerative anemia, neutrophilic leukocytosis, and occasional thrombocytopenia. Joint aspiration and radiography indicated nonseptic, nonerosive arthritis. Despite treatment for immune-mediated disease and pyrexia, all eight dogs had relapsing illness and died or were euthanized by 2 years of age from progressive systemic amyloidosis and renal failure. Necropsies were performed on three dogs, two of which had glomerular amyloiosis and wide spread evidence of vasculitis. The history, signs and close association with immunization suggested that juvenile-onset polyarthritis and subsequent amyloidosis in these Akitas may have been an autoimmune response triggered by the viral antigens or other components of vaccines (3).

 

The vaccine-related history was reviewed for 129 puppies belonging to the family of Akitas discussed above. Polyvalent MLV vaccine was given to 104 of them, with 10 (9.8%) puppies showing adverse reactions and death. Another six puppies received a polyvalent all-killed vaccine product (no longer commercially available) with no reactors, and 19 puppies received homeopathic nosides initially followed by killed canine parvovirus (CPV) vaccine, with one reactor (5.6% that died, and one that became ill but survived (3).

 

A genetic basis for immune-mediated disease and immunodeficiencies states is well known (1,2,12,13,15,17,18). The mechanism for triggering immune-mediated disease is poorly understood, but predisposing factors have been implicated when genetically susceptible individuals encounter environmental agents that induce nonspecific inflammation, molecular mimicry, or both (3,17). The combined effects of these genetic and environmental factors override normal self-tolerance and are usually mediated by T-cell imbalance or dysregulation (17).

 

Since the modern Akita arose from a relatively small gene pool, understanding the potential environmental triggers of juvenile-onset IMPA has immediate importance. Numerous agents have been implicated, including drugs, vaccines, viruses, bacteria, chemicals and other toxins (1-3, 10,11). Although littermates from affected families typically end up in different locales, all undergo relatively standardized immunization procedures at a similar age.

 

 

Vaccine-Associated Disease in Young Weimaraners

 

The Weimaraner breed appears to be especially prone to both immune deficiency and autoimmune diseases, which have been recognized with increasing frequency in related members of the breed over the past 15 years (3). Autoimmune thyroiditis leading to clinically expressed hypothyroidism is probably the most common of these disorders, along with vaccine-associated HOD of young Weimaraners (2,3,17).

 

During a 2-year period (1986-1988), Couto (3) evaluated 170 related Weimaraners, including affected puppies and their relatives. Clinical signs of the affected dogs included high fevers, polyarthritis with pain and swelling typical of HOD, coughing and respiratory distress from pneumonia, enlarged lymph nodes, diarrhea, pyoderma, and mouth ulcers. In most cases, clinical signs were first detected shortly after vaccination with a second dose of polyvalent MLV vaccine when the puppies were between 2 and 5 months of age. This author has studied more than 60 Weimaraners with vaccine-associated disease. In the 24 cases described in a previous article (3), the mean age of onset of clinical signs was 13.5 weeks, with a mean reaction time of 10.5 days postvaccination. Males were predominantly affected. All affected puppies showed high-spiking fevers, cyclic episodes of pain, and polyarthritis (HOD) - a group of signs identical to those of the affected young Akitas described previously. Most affected puppies also showed leukocytosis (with neutrophilia or neutropenia), diarrhea, lethargy, anorexia, and enlarged lymph nodes. Some puppies also had levels of immunoglobulin A, immunoglobulin M, or both below those expected for their age, and one puppy had immunoglobulin G (IgG) deficiency as well. Other signs included coughing, pneumonia, depression, deizures or ‘spaced out’ behaviour, refusal to stand or move, and hyperesthesia (‘walking on eggshells’). The outcome for half of these cases was good (12 of the 24 are healthy adults), although two died, three were euthanized as puppies, and three remained chronically ill as adults. Another four cases were lost to follow-up.

 

 

Management of this clinical syndrome is best accomplished with an initial dose of parenteral corticosteroids followed by a tapering course of corticosteroids over 4 to 6 weeks. Systemic broad-spectrum antibiotics may be given prophylactically, and vitamin C (500 to 1000mg daily) can be included to promote immune support. Recurring episodes are treated by increasing the corticosteroid dosage for a few days until the flare-up has subsided. The response to initial corticosteroid treatment is always dramatic, with fever and joint pain usually subsiding within a matter of hours.

 

 

Serological titers for canine distemper virus (CDV) and CPV were determined in 19 of the 24 affected Weimaraner puppies, and all were adequate. Upon reaching adulthood, serum antibody titers were re-evaluated and detectable CDV- and CPV-specific IgG persisted. Several of these dogs have subsequently developed hypothyroidism and are receiving thyroid replacement (3,4,17). Thus, to avoid recurrence of adverse effects, which has been shown to be even more severe if another vaccine booster is given, serological titers for CDV and CPV are measured (7).

 

Another approach recommended by Weimaraner breeders and this author is to modify the vaccination protocol, especially for puppies from families known to have experienced adverse vaccine reactions. Examples would be to limit the number of antigens used in the vaccine series to those infectious agents of most clinical concer (i.e., CDV, CPV, and rabies virus), separating these and other antigens to 2- to 3-week intervals, and giving rabies vaccine by itself at 6 months of age. A booster series is administered at 1 year by separating the CDV, CPV, rabies virus, and other vaccine components, where possible, and giving them on separate visits at least 2 weeks apart. Thereafter, serological antibody titers can be measured (except for those vaccines required by law, unless a specific exemption is made on an individual case basis).

 

 

Recommendations

 

Practitioners should be encouraged during the initial visit with a new puppy owner or breeder to review current information about the breed’s known congenital and heritable traits. Several databases, veterinary textbooks, and review articles contain the relevant information to assist here (2). For those breeds at increased risk, the potential for adverse reactions to routine vaccinations should be discussed as part of this wellness program. Because breeders of at-risk breeds have likely alerted the new puppy buyer to this possibility, we should be mindful and respectful of their viewpoint, which may be more informed than ours about a specific breed or family issue. To ignore or dismiss these issues can jeopardize the client-patient relationship and result in the client going elsewhere for veterinary services or even turning away from seeking professional care for these preventive health measures. As a minimum, if we are unaware of the particular concern expressed, we can research the matter or ask the client for any relevant scientific or medical documentation. The accumulated evidence indicates that vaccination protocols should no longer be considered as a ‘one size fits all’ program.

 

For these special cases, appropriate alternatives to current vaccine practices include: measuring serum antibody titers; avoidance of unnecessary vaccines or overvaccinating; using caution in vaccinating sick, very old, debilitated, or febrile individuals; and tailoring a specific minimal vaccination protocol for dogs of breeds or families known to be at increased risk for adverse reactions (3,5-8). Considerations include starting the vaccination series later, such as at 9 or 10 weeks of age, when the immune system is more able to handle antigenic challenge; alerting the caregiver to pay particular attention to the puppy’s behaviour and overall health after the second or subsequent boosters; and avoiding revaccination of individuals already experiencing a significant adverse event. Littermates of affected puppies should be closely monitored after receiving additional vaccines in a puppy series, as they, too, are at higher risk. Altering the puppy vaccination protocol, as suggested above for the Weimaraner, is also advisable.

 

 

Following these recommendations may be a prudent way for our profession to balance the need for individual patient disease prevention with the age-old physician’s adage, forwarded by Hippocrates, of ‘to help, or at least do no harm’.

 

.......................................

 

 

 

 

But the choice, ultimately, is yours.

 

 

Also bear in mind that if you really feel you need to do 'something' there is Homeopathy, talk to a Homeopathic Vet.

[raceylacy]

Heck - what a dilemma for you I try to keep it simple. Mine have puppy shots followed by a booster the following year. That's it. I came to this decision having owned a dog with severe epilepsy who initially we kept up with his annual boosters. This stopped following discussion with our conventional vet who said 'No more boosters'! I was also aware of the controversial subject re boosters, but I don't have a technical brain, and it is such a HUGE subject and if you go into it is a real can of worms! So went with my gut feelings and based on the advice of vets and what I learnt about epilepsy.

 

One of the reasons I was particularly concerned was because I worked with rescue dogs at the time and was naturally concerned that I could inadvertantly bring home 'nasties' on my clothing etc (despite being on top of hygiene, dipping my footwear in Trigene etc).

 

We were also with Richard Allport (Homeopathic Vet). He and my conventional vet both agreed that boostering was a big No No - firstly because you are putting yet more chemicals/poisens into Skye's system and it just means it is more for his body to cope with - his body was already compromised due to the AED's and the condition of epilepsy itself. RA particularly aimed Skye's homeopathic meds towards boosting his immune system.

 

We all agreed that because of where I live (no significant stray dog problems), the fact that he was on a good quality diet, he was never walked near canals/areas where vermin live and he is never walked in public parks where other dogs congregate with their owners and pee up goal posts etc the risks were low and overall, epilepsy aside, he was deemed in good health.

 

This still didn't stop me worrying as we are out and about with our dogs all over the place - holidays, classes, doggie events etc.

 

When I discussed my concerns re working with rescue dogs - many of unknown backgrounds, who were potentially coming into the rescue with various illness - both of them again said the risks were very low - in other words neither of them were concerned.

 

This therefore, just helped me with my decision but must point out, despite what they said, although reassuring in one sense, I still knew there was a 'risk'.

 

Weighing it all up I felt it was a risk worth taking. Life is full of risks and sometimes you just have to weigh it up.

 

Sadly Skye is no longer with us. He lost his battle with epilepsy not through not being vaccinated.

 

I'm am writing this just to help you come to a decision - weighing up all the pros and cons. I continue not to have mine boostered but I do still worry.

 

Thanks also to Alexis for putting another view point on it and of course Houndwoman and Muriel. There is no easy answer because of there being so much conflicting information. You just have to 'tune' in to what you know is sound scientific evidence and somehow try and get yer head round it.

 

Listen to what your heart tells you .....

 

(I also Second Murial's recommendation of seeking the advice of a Homeopathic Vet - we did and I never regretted it!)

 

Sandra

Edited November 22, 2006 by raceylacy

[mum24dog]

my question is would you vaccinate him if he was your dog? He does do Flyball and Agility and is out and about most days with other dogs so would hate for him to get anything or pass something on.

Agilitymad

 

My dogs have the same sort of lifestyle as yours and I would have to be given a compelling reason not to vaccinate if it were one of mine in that situation.

On the one hand, apart from kennel cough, you don't tend to get epidemics spreading around competition dogs. Just guessing but a high proportion will be vaccinated and will also be fit and healthy.

On the other hand, competitions are often held at venues where the general public normally have access with their dogs, which is a greater risk IMO.

No help at all, I know.

If you are in any doubt, ask your vet to arrange for a blood sample to be titre tested to get a guide as to his likely immunity levels. The test isn't foolproof, but you might gain enough of an indication to show that he doesn't need a booster anyway and that would set your mind at rest.

 

Pam

[agilitymad]

Thank you all so much for your advice and links

 

I still don't know what to do in my heart i don't want him vaccinated again but my brain is telling me that if i don't would i be able to live with that disision if he became ill with something that could have been prevented with vaccinating him.

 

When all this happened last year my vet waited until he was better in himself and of all the drugs before she vaccinated him, so he was vaccinated last year and he has not had any side effects from this but over the last year has been ok for some weeks then not right and this has gone on for the whole year. could this be from the vaccine or just his white cell count (i just don't know).

 

The past week he has not been himself again after having a tummy upset which ended with him on drip and again another bout of antibotics for the next week. He is not right in himself again and i think my vet must think i'm a worry wart but i can't help it he is my life

 

Sorry if this has coursed any problems but i needed to ask someone who wasn't connected in anyway if you know what i mean

[raceylacy]

Oh Agilitymad, how I sympathise.

 

Right, if it were me first of all I would get a referral to a Homeopathic Vet to get a homeopathic view/treatment in supporting the immune system etc - so that your dog's body is better supported to cope with times when he is not feeling himself.

 

And secondly, I would do as Pam suggests and get a titre test done, which as Pam says, although not foolproof, hopefully give you some idea of his immunity.

 

And take it from there ....

 

Hope this helps (a little!)

 

Sandra

[agilitymad]

Thank you Sandra for your kind words

 

I am going to phone a lady tomorrow thats a Homeopathic vet and get her to see him and go from there i have been told that she can do the titre test thing.

 

how will this effect my insurance?

 

and will i still be able to take my dog to training classes?

[raceylacy]

Hiya

 

You will need to contact your vet either in person or on the phone. Tell them you wish to see a Homeopathic Vet (they cannot refuse you this and should respect your wishes and don't let them put you off! - it's your right!)

 

Then once you've done that bit, make an appointment with the HomVEt of your choice and away you go .... You will probably be sent a form by HV to fill in asking for all the info of your dog's lifestyle, diet etc. And then just make the appointment.

 

Your conventional vet is 'your' vet - the homeopathic vet works alongside your conventional vet - they don't take over the case so to speak.

 

Think Murial put the link up for homeopathic vets but if memory serves me right this is the link just in case ....

 

http://www.bahvs.org.uk

 

(I doubt there will be a problem with continuing with classes etc)

 

Sandra

Edited November 22, 2006 by raceylacy

[agilitymad]

Thanks again Sandra

 

Last night i got the number of a friend who uses a HomVet and phoned her up and she sounded really nice and said also not to vaccinate for this year she also thinks that conventional meds can't do anything for his condition but homeophathic can and does work. so i will go with this root for know and see what happeneds.

 

again thanks for all of your help and guidence.

 

Annyetta and Lucky

[Muriel]

Good, I'm sure she'll be able to help Lucky. Remember that she learnt all the stuff your original vet did first, then went on and learnt more so has more tools at her disposal to help Lucky. Let us know how you get on.

[agilitymad]

I am pleased to say that Lucky will not be vaccinated ever again

 

After talking to my vet who agrees that in Lucky case that it would not be advisable

 

I will vaccinate Oni this year but she will not need to be done again after this as this year is her first booster.

[Houndwoman]

Good to hear that your vet has been so honest with you and put Lucky's health and welfare first

 

You must feel quite relieved now that a decision has been made

Edited December 12, 2006 by Houndwoman