greyhound pal

I dare not look because the man is such an @***hole. Oh but we'd need to injure his legs (pleeeeeeeeeeeeaaase let me do it) , give him some anti-inflammatories BEFORE we make him run. Vile little man

I think either or - would imagine if you contacted direct, the vet woudl be asked for a history. Are you considering it? I've got the hounds registered as blood donors but we've never been asked.

I've maybe misled you as to what this said - its one paragraph only if I remember and it really just says that the government believe greyhound racing needs additional legislation which would become secondary legislation. IT doesn't go into any detail at all however if you want it in detail, the results of the consutation document that led to this decision is on the Scottish Government website - you would be looking for the animal health and welfare (scotland) act Although I'm beginning to doubt my memory because I've seen some document about the Greyhound (Scotland) Act but I've a feeling this was something that they sent out to relevant groups and bodies. Will look over weekend because I'm really wondering now (and will curse you the whole way!) Greyhound racing may already breach this by the looks of this new guidance thats due out soon - woudl be mentally impossible for me to think tonight so will coem back when I'm a wee bit less sleepy!

Because (and I always snort at this) to be defined as a "sport", there has to be a human involved and unlike horse racing there is no humans involved in the actual activity of sport - seriously! Thats why it doesn't come under any "sport" heading nationally - for example the Sports, Arts And Culture department of the Government doesn't recognise it therefore it needs to come under Rural Affairs. I might have guessed that would be your next question Well this is where its word-games. Because the government dont' define it as a "sport" but everyone else does - SSPCA, Racing industry etc, it wouldn't ever be banned as a 'sporting activity' but as an animal welfare issue instead - rather "animals used in entertainment" would be the correct terminology. But to the majority of the public, its a 'sport' and its the general public we reach out to with the campaign. And its easier to use than bannign greyhound racing as a form of entertainment. However elsewhere we'd refer to it as animals used for entertainment - not in hobbies with dogs, but the same classification as the likes of circus etc. Oh god - was scared you'd say that! Will dig it out but its deep in my *a-hem* 'filing system' (think 6 foot by 5 foot room covered in paperwork in boxes in no order!) so give me a few days or so!

It doesn't exist yet. Its to be secondary legislation to the Animal Health & Welfare Act (Scotland) 2006. They deliberately left greyhound racing (amongst other issues) out of the Act - unlike England who included them and confirmed the industry should remain self-regulatory. The reason for that was because they felt that the "sport" (although this gets complicated because unlike England, Scotland doesn't consider greyhound racing as a "sport") could not adequately be covered by the current legislation. Its on its way but the "Guidelines for pet owners" which although not enforceable as such, will be the benchmark for future prosecutions for animals in Scotland, was due to follow right away and the consultation has just ended. However if you look at the political situation in Scotland over the last few years, we do not have a Labour government any more and most of our local authorities are no longer Labour which has led to settling down period as well as different priorities. Our MSP (Socialist) was voted out otherwise the legislation or private members bill would have been past the consultation process by now. I would doubt there will be links to a bill that hasn't even gone to consultation yet on google - I have the paperwork here about the reasoning behind it and can scan it for you - would need to find it first! Yep. Have no issue with that if (and I mean if) that was to happen as a result. But its the sport of greyhound racing and maybe I'm not getting your point here but its totally unrelated. Totally different situation. This isn't about a breed of dog - its about exploitation of a breed of dog in the name of human entertainment'. You can't compare them - try to take out greyhound racing and put in banning elephants in circus's. Its closer to that than it is to BSL. Not at all. I have no opinion on that. GA Scotland has no opinion either. The big thing its like when people talk about horse or camel or snail racing, they think the campaign includes that. It doesn't. And for all above reasons which I've already posted, its not ever going to include that. That detracts from the fact that we're about greyhounds. End of. Any time!

I think perhaps you shouldn't jump to conclusions and make assumptions on 'what is being said here' because thats not what was being said I can assure you I have no ulterior motive if greyhound racing is banned. Although I hate horse racing, I wouldn't be campaigning for the end of that. Our campaign has the AIM to ban the breeding, racing and training of greyhounds for sport in Scotland. All of which you mention doesn't come into it. Its an AIM and doesn't even touch whippet racing and its unlikely to go anywhere near any other sports with dogs. The private members bill we were involved in discussions about was very clear that it was specifically greyhounds that this legilation would affect. And the Bill which is due to go to consultation shortly (it was supposed to be two years ago and already in force) is specifically the Greyhound (Scotland) Act. Does not cover any other animal or breed of dog but greyhounds or any other kind of sport. ALL animal welfare orgs would be involved in this consultation when (and I'm begininng to think 'if') it appears, so the welfare of animals should not be compromised. GA Scotland would happily fold and I think most of us would take a long rest. Thats not to say I wouldn't personally take on another issue, but greyhounds right now are my priority.

In today's evening news. I'd offer Cleo-cat in a minute but she's not healthy enough http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/latestne...oggy.4357404.jp Vets cry out for moggy donors By SUE GYFORD DENNIS might not look like a lifesaver, but in the past three years he has helped three other cats rack up an extra life over their allotted nine – by donating blood. He is one of several cats on a special list kept by The Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, felines who regularly drop their mouse-chasing to give blood at a moment's notice when another animal is in need. Now the school's small animals hospital is putting out a call to attract new donor cats, as some of its regulars have grown too old to help. While human blood, and even dog blood, can be stored for some time after donation, blood given by cats is best used within 24 hours, and goes off completely after a month. When an emergency strikes, vets therefore need a list of pet owners they can phone to bring their cats in at short notice for fresh supplies. The hospital's visiting clinical fellow, Nicki Reed, explained: "We basically collect the blood into a small version of the human blood donation bag. With dogs and with humans, the blood gets broken down into components such as plasma and red blood cells that get separated so they can be stored, but it's hard to do that with cats because the bags are much smaller." As well as helping cats on the operating table, the donations can be used to treat a variety of other problems, she explained: "It's used for cats that are anaemic, and occasionally we see cats who have had rat poison or have coagulating difficulties like haemophilia and cats that aren't producing enough blood cells." New recruits are first tested to check for infections and to find out their blood type. The process then takes 15 to 30 minutes. The vets are ideally looking for cats over 5kg with a placid temperament. Indoor cats are good donors because they are less likely to carry infections. The hospital has a list of around 15 regulars, each popping in once or twice a year according to need. The most frequent donors are the staff's long-suffering pets, as they're easy to track down at short notice. Mrs Reed's own British short hairs, Will and Grace, have joined the list – at just over a year old, Grace has already made her first donation. As for Dennis, a black farm cat from Penicuik, he loves the whole experience, say owners Irene Allan and her husband David Stirling. Ms Allan said: "He's no problem at all, he's quite relaxed. They give us a call and say 'We need Dennis' and within half an hour we're there. "Afterwards, he's fine. He gets a bag of food for doing it, and he's quite content."

Yes but think about how damaging it would be if couples like you didn't come forward and give those kids a chance Fee? The kids would either end up dumped with unwilling relatives or in a home somewhere with little one to one parenting. My Grandad was dumped in a home as a child and he was a very damaged person all his life. As long as there are kids who's parents either don't want them or don't feel they can give their child the best, then people who are kind enough to share your life with a child are very much needed

Pretty much sums up my own thoughts. Just to let you understand Terrier, its not that I would like to see fun activites outlawed - I do agility wih my lurcher, but I don't believe your argument is a valid enough point to worry about in the first place which is why I gave you a flippant answer. I just think this 'banning people having fun with their dogs' is irrelevant because its unlikely to become a part of any relevant legislation and if it did, surely dogs suffering and dying outweighs dogs having 'fun'? Just my opinion.

Thats normally my feelings about the majority of issues Terrier but its closer to me than a "hypothetical" situation and I'm finding it hard to deal with given we aren't just talking about one or two babies. I have had two babies and in both situations for very different reasons abortion was an option because of circumstances at the time. THe second was health related which is fair enough but the first I was in my teens, alone and pregnant and left a very violent relationship where said barsteward had attempted to make me loose the baby by tossing me head first downstairs. I can honestly say adoption never ever came into my head as an option for the first. I can't think of single circumstances that would have made me think it was a viable option. I am not judging why anyone could - I was always a strong independant person and I know others aren't like that however I just wondered what the reasons could be and what the effects of it are - for everyone. KathyW - doing a really good job of explaining internal feelings which helps!

some people Fab idea though Do you think 8000 bowls would be more effective? I'd always thought that if you got the right location that would come over as very poignant (as long as no one thought they were for sale!)

You might not be looking for one but you are getting one If it means anything I *think* I get what you mean abotu contradictory feelings

Why not try it and see if any of your local vets/pet shops will put up a poster? Easy enough to design online But do be careful with the wording - I know when we did out greyhound leaflets they were a nightmare because you can't say things like 'Don't go to greyhound racing' because I am also one of these people who hates being told what to do and frequently do the opposite if I think someone elses opinion is being forced down my throat

Completely agree

Sorry I can't stop myself! Yes its quite amazing when you consider how frequently you hear about those great fabby trainers/owners who keep their greyhounds once they've finished racing them yet you never actually MEET them and the hounds they've kept for the rest of their natural Yes Ange - greys are the extreme which is why I think we find greyhound people very vocal about this kind of issue because its close to home for them

Wasn't it someone on here that wanted to do the 8,000 empty dog bowls somewhere to highlight this? I'm a bit of a cynic today because I very gently tried to speak to someone who had previously bred their dog and wanted a new puppy. Even got them to look at the nearest breed rescue website. As gently as I tried, she definitely didn't see the connection between her breeding from her dog and the numbers of that breed in a local rescue who are very near to where she lives yet she wasn't aware they existed. She came into the 'lack of savvy' category and I really believe she'll just end up either breeding another litter or going out and buying a pup. I doubt she'll ever get it. I was gentle but tbh if I'd used a sledgehammer, she still wouldn't have 'got it'. Depressing.

I think some can be educated but others have the lack of conscience/savvy which means they'll keep breeding because they don't/won't see that reproducing from their dog is making the issue worse. The pts figures are published each year in the press but in reality, its not good 'press'. One thing I wanted to post during the racing other breeds at greyhound tracks thread but didn't know how to be tactful (apologies in advance!) was that I think perhaps people don't relate it to their own breed - I think very few people with a rescue greyhound, for example, would consider breeding from it on the basis they are mass bred. I dont' imagine your average, say labrador owner would have the same 'conscience' because there aren't the same numbers being pts (saying labs because it was first dog to pop into my head and am aware there are several labradors in rescue!) - or rather the same high profile of the issue What I'm trying to say is that you become more sensitised to your own breed I suppose - if you get what I mean?

to all of you - sat here in tears at both the sad stories as well as the positive. Last night I was lying in bed thinking about the effect on the child rather than the 'joy' of the adoptive parents. to you because obviously this is an issue very close to you I'm glad you were born Mel but this is pretty much the situation I'm referring to except the relationships ended prior to the birth and the fathers don't know about the children at all. As much as this is long and complex, its something I've tried not to judge however its an issue I argue with myself over and long term, I worry about the kids. I'd like to think that the kids will all grow up having had a happy childhood but am wondering whether or not their birth will affect them irrepective of how good their adoptive families were. I mean what if they grow up feeling this deep rooted sense of rejection? I wouldn 't know although I have some experience of it - I was brought up with a biological mother who has issues surrounding her own importance and my irrelevance and have no doubt her behaviour damaged me. I also faced a lot of rejection throughout my life from her if I did things she disagreed with. My own daughter faces frequent rejection from her 'sperm donor' and I see that damaging her regularly. But I can't help going from thinking giving up at birth is either a very selfish or very brave act.

But isn't a surrogate someone who plans ahead instead of someone who falls pregnant by one night stand and hands the baby over to social services at birth so that an unknown couple can adopt? But I think I'm looking at it a different way now you've said that - thanks!

Totally Sam. I think a lot of people think this is something that happened in the past - shame of unmarried mums and pressure from her parents so to to bring shame on the family. But its not as uncommon these days as you would think. I agree that its such a brave decision and I doubt I'd be selfless enough to do it.

Okay. Can I throw something else in? What if a woman did it on more than one or two occasions. Almost like a form of contraception in a way. Does that change your thoughts?

Do you mean having your baby adopted or being an adult who was adopted as a child Sam? Am a bit split over this one and don't quite know what to think, hence the thread!

This is a sensitive subject so apologies to anyone who feels I'm being incredibly insensitive Following on from the abortion thread, do you think, other than as a result of rape or young teen pregnancy, that voluntarily giving up a baby for adoption these days is ever the 'right' thing to do?

Apologies but just going to answer the easy things because I'm exhausted but will come back tomorrow and answer other points when I can think a tad straighter. Yes Mustang Jack is still active and is indeed 15 years old and with 4673 registered pups. He is at Newpark stud who also had Spiral Nikita and Roanakee who died as active stud dogs both aged 14 years. Sad these stud dogs dont' ever get a couch isnt' it? But they're worth too much money and they make sure they get every last penny out of them Sorry if I'm harsh here - If thats what it takes, thats what it takes and tbh I don't care less whether this affects any 'fun' activity if it means the end of greyhounds suffering. Sorry What you said in quote above this one is so similar to the argument used against banning foxhunting. There were various 'concerns' being raised which I truly believe were propaganda created by those who gained from foxhunting (or the sick gits who just liked it) in with pet dog owners being told they wouldn't be able to risk letting their dogs off in the park in case it killed a squirrel/duck/rabbit/whatever. It was implied that those 'pet owners' would be charged under the proposed Act and thats why they shouldn't back the legislation to ban hunting with dogs. This turned out to be utter bollox. There were several arguments along those lines including one which said there would be a mass slaughter of foxhounds if foxhunting was banned - also failed to materialise. Thats what I meant by scaremongering. I'm going to lie down - I'm rambling

What it would most definitely stop is the sickening amount of pups bred from one dog. The three top ACTIVE stud dogs at the moment are Droopys Vieri, Droopys Kewell and Mustang Jack who between them have produced 17,238 pups to date - and thats only the ones registered. In the last year stud dogs Spiral Nikita, Roanakee and Top Honcho have all passed away being hired out for stud til the very end. Between those three dogs there were 19,840 pups registered. NOw then we can get into Artifical INsemination and frozen greyhound semen which was legalised in Ireland a few years ago - these stud dogs are dead but they could keep producing pups... Six dogs - over 37,000 pups is just too many. Average a litter size then times it by 2000 euros per pop (for want of a better phrase) then work out how much the breeders made. Especially given three out of the six belong to the same people. Scary stuff. When people talk of making money out of greyhound racing they tend to think owners/trainers/bookies. First and foremost we need to cut the demand to stop people like this providing the supply