A Minority Pastime

[kats n greys]

An upcoming independent documentary feature film - A Minority Pastime.

 

Some very unpleasant scenes- even in a short trailer.

 

[tegk68]

Keeping the emotion out of it, if fox hunting IS sold as a means of keeping the population of foxes under control then I don't believe it to be an effective method, at all.

 

Foxes round here are a real problem. There is now quite a substantial population. The free range chicken farm opposite me, lost 60% of their birds during the day to foxes last Summer (electric fences didn't seem to faze them). I myself have lost many of my pet chickens to them over the years too. Lambs from my farmer friend have also been taken this year. TBH that's just the tip of the iceberg. I can see a need for control - I realise I maybe in the minority here. My preference is not hunting though, but lamping with a good rifle and a skilled Shooter. I have witnessed this first hand. Fox looks at the light, shot is fired, a clean and extremely quick kill.

 

I don't want to erradicate foxes from the land, far from it, but there is a balance with regards population. Emotive videos generally turn me off, no matter how appalling the scenes look. Reasoned arguments and practical measures and a realistic appreciation of how foxes can and are a problem in the countryside for some is very important to me.

 

As an election matter, I realise and understand it's importance to many, however there are many more animal welfare issues that are more important to me right now. Sadly none of these seem to be getting a look in any election manifesto of debate wth any of the Parties.

[Ratscallions]

Can someone explain to me why so many americans are under the impression that the vast majority of the British want the fox hunting ban lifted? So many americans have said this to me. They seem to be under the impression that Conservatives will get into government, and the first thing that they'll do is lift the ban, and the whole country will rejoice. Where does that come from????

 

Nim

[cycas]

Foxes round here are a real problem. There is now quite a substantial population. The free range chicken farm opposite me, lost 60% of their birds during the day to foxes last Summer (electric fences didn't seem to faze them). I myself have lost many of my pet chickens to them over the years too. Lambs from my farmer friend have also been taken this year. TBH that's just the tip of the iceberg. I can see a need for control - I realise I maybe in the minority here. My preference is not hunting though, but lamping with a good rifle and a skilled Shooter. I have witnessed this first hand. Fox looks at the light, shot is fired, a clean and extremely quick kill.

 

Hmmm. I've had people lamping for foxes in the field opposite my house : there are houses 2/3 of the way around that field and I have 6 cats so as a bare minimum, some notice would have been nice , and I'm not at all sure that using a rifle in that field at all was really a good move. And as the countryside gets more built up, the more this problem will increase. (I know fox eyes reflect a different colour to cat ones, but given that children have been shot while lamping is going on, I'm not entirely convinced lampers are always that sure what they are shooting at).

 

But the pest population problem is an issue. Deer as well. http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/deer-to-blame-for-the-decline-of-englands-nightingales-1952989.html

[Ian]

I can't see what pleasure anyone gets out of seeing a poor fox torn limb from limb, or what the problem with a "fake fox" is ?

 

 

As to them being a pest, foxes and deer are surely entitled to eat too. Who decided birds were more important & why? We also kill far more animals than foxes do I would imagine. Can you imagine the out cry if fox lovers decided to go lamping?

 

As to doing it in an area that's 2/3 houses & where there may be domestic pets around etc, anyone that thick shouldn't be allowed anywhere near anything more than a water psitol

Edited April 26, 2010 by Ian

[cycas]

Chickens are considered more important than foxes because people eat chickens, and therefore, excessive fox predation puts people's livelihoods at stake, drives up the price of birds reared in natural environments with access to the outdoors and encourages factory farming.

[Laura_E]

I can't see what pleasure anyone gets out of seeing a poor fox torn limb from limb, or what the problem with a "fake fox" is ?

 

 

As to them being a pest, foxes and deer are surely entitled to eat too. Who decided birds were more important & why? We also kill far more animals than foxes do I would imagine. Can you imagine the out cry if fox lovers decided to go lamping?

 

I couldn't agree more. You have to have something fundementally wrong with you to derive pleasure from the torture and suffering of another being. Those in support of fox hunting argue that foxes are a pest and must therefore be controlled, but they actually regulate their own population. The other arguement is that it is an old English tradition, well so are many other cruel and draconian practices that went out with dark ages- which is where fox hunting belongs in my opinion. But lets not kid ourselves, it still goes on despite the ban, because if you belong in the upper classes you can pretty much do whatever the hell you like.

[tegk68]

As to doing it in an area that's 2/3 houses & where there may be domestic pets around etc, anyone that thick shouldn't be allowed anywhere near anything more than a water psitol

 

Couldn't agree more. TBH it is NOT in the landowners interest to allow irresponsible people to shoot on his land. Believe me it really isn't because the ramifications are huge.

 

When you Lamp Cycas you can easilly ID a fox, the light is that bright and no one should shoot without a scope on their gun. There should never be any ambiguity, ever. It is not done on eye colour reflection and should never be done so. Safety is paramount and that includes NEVER shooting towards any built up areas ever. The quarry should be out in the open to ensure easy ID and a clean kill not obstructed by any foliage etc and also not on the horizon where you can not guarentee what is in the back drop. Doubtless there are probably some idiots out there but then isn't that sadly the case for all things in life :-(

 

 

But lets not kid ourselves, it still goes on despite the ban, because if you belong in the upper classes you can pretty much do whatever the hell you like.

 

I hate bringing 'class' into any discussion because I hate the so called 'class system' full stop, however I will say that you would be very suprised at how many 'ordinary folk' follow and take part in hunting and are passionate about it. It is far from a sport just for the rich, just as shooting, fishing and other field sports are....

 

All that said I stick with my first post in that I firmly believe hunting not to be the best method for population control.

Edited May 5, 2010 by tegk68

[Ratscallions]

The thing is, that they will always argue that the fox is a problem. My argument is that fox hunting is cruel and barbaric. If their argument really is that foxes are a problem (as oposed to 'oh but it's such fun ducky'), then why not use less cruel methods?

[cycas]

Couldn't agree more. TBH it is NOT in the landowners interest to allow irresponsible people to shoot on his land. Believe me it really isn't because the ramifications are huge.

 

When you Lamp Cycas you can easilly ID a fox, the light is that bright and no one should shoot without a scope on their gun. There should never be any ambiguity, ever. It is not done on eye colour reflection and should never be done so. Safety is paramount and that includes NEVER shooting towards any built up areas ever. The quarry should be out in the open to ensure easy ID and a clean kill not obstructed by any foliage etc and also not on the horizon where you can not guarentee what is in the back drop. Doubtless there are probably some idiots out there but then isn't that sadly the case for all things in life :-(

 

 

The problem here is that there is a hell of a lot of cover, and almost nowhere where there is a clear open shot across a flat area. It's hilly, it's an old mining area with ruined buildings, trees and irregular ground everywhere, it's Cornwall, so instead of a nice round village with a centre, you have a bunch of houses straggling across a hillside and dotted through woods. Loads of people with chickens, and a lot of foxes!

 

This is the thing though, I suspect if you have a bunch of people who have been TOLD that lamping is the way to prevent fox predation, all of them with rifles, some of them are going to use them in inappropriate places. It's just human nature.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/BOY+OF+12+SHOT+IN+HEAD+BY+%27LAMPING%27+HUNTERS%3B+Victim+fighting+for...-a0122488041

 

That's one boy killed, one injured and an adult shot in 2 years. I'm not convinced that lamping is really something that annoyed chicken owners should be allowed the decision on.

 

I do have some sympathy for my neighbours, who have a lot of chooks which seem to have a nice life, and also I do take their point that some of the foxes raiding their chickens were in fact in pretty poor condition, very thin and mangy. But I don't know what the answer is. I doubt you could foxhunt over it, lamping is silly in this environment (they've not done it again since, so I think my protest was registered).

 

I'm told geese and alpacas can be quite good guardian animals against foxes, though my neighbours don't have either. They have started keeping pigs though. Maybe pigs chase foxes...?

[gremlin22]

i know people who have been threatened with a shovel to the head if they didn't stop interfering with the hunt ( they were laying false scents, not being violent), and others who were attacked with the shovel, anyone who can do that to a human is a violent person and has no buisness being allowed to own weapons of any kind.

hunting is horrible in my opinion and as far as being an effective method of population control goes, it's just Bo***cks.

I appreciate chickens get taken, there must be more that can be done in terms of fencing though, i know foxes dig but surley a couple of feet under ground for the fence would be enough, or better at least and secure hutches at night. foxes don't usually hunt in broad daylight.

I also agree that a marksman would be a kinder method of population control where it's safe to do so, but not the idiots on hunts with guns or the terriermen, it needs to be properly trained marksman, licenced and held accountable if they screw up.

 

it's already banned, but they still hunt becuase of loopholes..they will do whatever they want in the end and god help us if the tories get in!

[tegk68]

Well it's not a given at all that even if it there was a tory majority, and they put fox hunting to a vote, which is what they have said they will do, that the outcome will support a return of fox hunting at all. Plus the fact a vote on fox hunting would be so very low down their list that it might not even make it to the top during a first term in office anyway - but of course the conservatives are not the leading party anyway.

 

Hope I don't need to eat my words above....

 

Can I also add, that as I voted conservatives for many good reasons (obviously my opinon ) this does not mean I in anyway support fox hunting. And in case anyone is interested there is a good website for tory voting people like me http://www.conservat...foxhunting.com/

Edited May 7, 2010 by tegk68

[Maria]

Cameron had planned a free vote on repeal of the hunting act within one month of taking office (like there aren't more important things needing doing). The vote would be based on the MP's views, not their constituents.

Lots of their candidates were selected on the basis of their views,(supported by the Countryside alliance) and most of them wouldn't tell the various animal welfare sites how they would vote on such a bill - probably because they knew that it wouldn't be popular (whereas most Lib and Labour candidates were open and said they would oppose repeal).

Those who did reply to constituents views before the election trotted out an argument that they felt it was a matter of conscience on behalf of the hunters (like animal cruelty or any cruelty should be left to the perpetrators to decide) and would therefore vote for repeal.

[elricc]

Very well put Maria.

[tegk68]

Thanks for your post maria , I think I'm living in cloud cuckoo land. Well a free vote for all MPs and Peers (if it happens) - better hope that for those who have made Fox Hunting their priority in this election have voted in the right MP in their constituency (and that doesn't necessarily mean not voting for a Tory is a good choice as conservative MP's that don't wish to repeal the ban do unbelievably exist - see below!).

 

My only other comment, and going off topic, is how disappointing the Fox Hunting Ban has been in that the infrastructure of Hunts up and down the Country still survives and thrives to this day but that alone is no reason to repeal a ban.

 

I think all foxes should pack up and move to the Towns and cities. It would save everyone, them included, a lot of heartache....

 

Newly elected Conservative MP's that have pledged that they are AGAINST a repeal of the Fox Hunting Ban:

David Amess MP (Southend W)

John Randall MP (Uxbridge)

David Evennett MP (Bexleyheath & Crayford)

Simon Kirby MP (Brighton Kemptown)

Bernard Jenkin MP (Harwich & North Essex)

Mike Weatherley MP (Hove & Portslade)

Lee Scott MP (Ilford North)

Nicola Blackwood MP (Oxford West & Abingdon)

Roger Gale MP (North Thanet)

Mark Reckless MP (Rochester & Strood)

Andrew Rosindell MP (Romford)

Dr Sarah Wollaston MP (Totnes)

Richard Harrington MP (Watford)

Esther McVey MP (Wirral West)

 

 

 

Unelected Conservative MP's that have pledged that they are AGAINST a repeal of the Fox Hunting Ban:

 

Gary Ridley (Coventry North West)

Kevin Foster (Coventry South)

Gary Mulvaney (Argyll & Bute)

Andrew Gilbert (Birkenhead)

Charlotte Vere (Brighton Pavilion)

Karen Robson (Cardiff Central)

Ken Andrew (Carshalton & Wallington)

Andrew Charalambous (Edmonton)

David Gold (Eltham)

Ruth Davidson (Glasgow North East)

Dr Rachel Joyce (Harrow West)

George Lee (Holborn & St Pancras)

Diana Coad (Slough)

Philippa Stroud (Sutton & Cheam)

Marcus Wood (Torbay)

Leah Fraser (Wallasey)

 

Newly elected non conservative MP's that have pledged that they are FOR a repeal of the Fox Hunting Ban:

Simon Hughes MP Lib Dem (Bermondsey & Old Southwark)

Nick Harvey MP Lib Dems (Devon North)

Tim Farron MP Lib Dem (Westmorland & Lonsdale)

Ian Mearns MP Labour (Gateshead)

Jeremy Browne MP Lib Dem (Taunton Deane)

Kate Hoey MP Labour (Vauxhall)

Adrian Sanders MP Lib Dems (Torbay)

 

The above is taken from here http://www.save-me.o...how-they-stand/ and only around 20% or less of all Prospective Parlimentary Candidates provided either a 'For' or 'Against' answer.

Edited May 7, 2010 by tegk68