lucyandmeg Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I have clicker trained my dogs ever since i have had them, but i have nearly always used the lure and reward method rather than free shaping. I have done a little free shaping, mainly the touch and the pick up and hold a dumbell, but little else. My dogs can do an awful lot of tricks etc on command but hardly ever offer anything. Having watched my friends training their dogs, their dogs are falling over themselves to offer things, walking backwards, paw on face, bark, touch, pick up things, they look so alive, and are incredibly clever. So i decided to try some free time to liven them up and try to geth them to think for themselves a bit more. Basically i jsut started to click them for anything they did, and then if they repeated something over and over i stopped clicking and asked them to try again. Surprisingly it was very difficult. THe only one that really got the idea was the spaniel (who has never been the sharpest tool in the box) who was throwing himself all over the place. THe collie tried a couple of things, but seemed to get stuck on a few behavious, sit, down, and paw over the face. (the last thing i taught her). She was a bit more motivated with a ball but still struggling. The worst was my retriever (ellie) who just wouldn't offer me anything other than paw over the face (last thing i taught her) and the occaisional sit, down or bow. Eventually she just gave up and walked off and laid down. SHe is very bright, and loves food but she gets really bothered about not getting things right. I was willing to reward her for the smallest thing, but something differnt than what she was offering. Do you think they will get better with time and practise, or should i just give up on the idea? I really need to build up ellies confidence to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mpenn Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I wouldn't give up, just cut down the session to the short time that she will offer behaviours for, as she gets more confident she should learn to offer more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoC Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Have you tried 101 thing s to do with a box? That gives them something to interact with, and then you can click the second they glance at it for the first time. I would try shorter sessions, and clicking for absolutely anything. If she's doing the paw over the face, click the second the paw comes off the ground, or she shuffles her feet etc. The more clicks she gets, the more confidence she'll get, and they need a fair amount of confidence for free shaping. I've got two dogs, one is a whirling dervish when it comes to shaping, he's offering things all over the place and getting OTT and slamming stuff with his feet, barking, moving at 100 miles an hour etc. He was easy to get started on free shaping, but is a nightmare to control!! Lenny on the other hand was a nervous wreck, and now he's a very methodical dog, he's eager in what he's doing and his whole face lights up but he's a thinker, and that makes the whole process much easier. Ellie might turn out like that, and believe me, a thinking dog is a free shapers dream! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9Fran Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 LOL - had to laugh at the spaniel being the only one who cottoned on - hidden depths between those thick ears ;) My ESS was the original 'I can't do that, I don't know how, and you might not like it' dog - until she met 'the box' as described by JoC - it opened her up to so many possibilities and she really adores training now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucyandmeg Posted March 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 (edited) *update* We had a bit of a break through today. Because it was too wet and cold to walk after work i decided to do some training. I did exactly what i did before, and this time they all started offering behaviours. Murphy absolutely adores it and gets so excited he throws himself all over the place making silly noises, but i managed to get him to lay down and put his chin of the floor between his front paws ("chin") just by shaping - no luring whatsoever, i'm dead chuffed as im useless at shaping. Ellie initially went back to offering safe behaviours as before which i initially rewarded, but then stopped and asked her to try again and waited for anything different. Because she wasn't so tired she was more with it and actually offered me something. Its still a slow process, but she actually managed to work out that i wanted her to go round the cone without me asking her, and she only wandered off once. (but came back). She looked really pleased with herself afterwards, not at all depressed and bored as she usually does. So hurray, things are getting better- although i am breaking the first rule of dog training, training 3 dogs at once, opps! Interestingly enough i found they were actually learning by watching each other, if ellie offered something then so would murphy, amazing! Edited March 29, 2006 by lucyandmeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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