Abby Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Clive guards stuff from Dylan from time to time, but it has recently got a lot worse, and we need to do something. Here are a few bits of info: Clive never guards from us or other people He will mug Dylan for toys or sticks, both at home and on walks (sometimes violently) - has done since we got Dylan We moved house in December and now have a very different life running a pub Clive is a shy dog, who can be scared of people (therefore life in the pub can be stressful for him) and he has always been independent, liking time alone Clive and Dylan also get on very well at times, and play very well. New types of guarding include bin bags, the coffee table (especially when we have food or there is a plate on it), blocking Dylan from getting on the sofa next to us, and the old chestnut of stopping Dylan from getting on the bed I have lots of theories about what issues there may be (I am relatively happy there are no medical issues as he was checked by a vet in January who said he was in great condition) and have done some training with him before on guarding, based on Jean Donaldson's work programmes, to quite good effect (but then the chaos of moving & a new business happened and it fell by the wayside). But, I feel we are in over our heads at the moment. Dylan is beginning to be wary of Clive, which I don't want. Clive is obviously stressed a lot of the time, which is not good either. I am going to go back to my books and revisit Jean Donaldson's work. I have looked around this area for behaviourists but can't stretch to the prices I have seen - we are skint. I might be able to stretch to a Ttouch session, as I think he and I would benefit from this, but that's not really the same as getting a behaviourist's opinion. Any thoughts, ideas, experiences would really be appreciated. My poor boy should be happy and merry, not stressed like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nouggatti Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Abby Has it gotten worse specifically after you moved? If so how long is it since you moved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abby Posted March 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Well, I did notice when we were packing up our house Clive was guarding bin bags from Dylan, very specifically, and he'd never done that before. But I put that down to the stress of his home being dismantled. We moved mid-December and I would say mostly his behaviour has been normal (normal being mid-level thuggery, nicking toys / sticks of Dylan but not guarding us or furniture or food from Dylan) until the last maybe 3 weeks? I can't think of anything specific that might have triggered it. But it is now very much worse. I have often thought that Clive's 'issues' come in waves, which has made me ponder whether they are hormonal. But I am very reluctant to go there (he is entire, Dylan is not) as I am very unsure as to how often neutering is actually a solution. I do wonder whether he is not suited to be 'top dog' in our dog family, though that is how he is behaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happylittlegreensquirrel Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 how old is Clive and why is he entire ( is a medical or age related reason for example ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiona711 Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Oh dear i have had a similar problem in the past so i know how you feel Storm has always had resource guarding issues and i agree Jean Donalson's Mine was a fantastic book with some really good practical information well written and easy to understand . Storm suddenly started getting a bit grumpy with Akira and i knew there was something wrong , we had not had any chages in our live at all so i could not figure out why his behaviour was suddenly escalating . Like you i took Storm to the vet who did some blood tests , checked him over and said she could find nothing wrong , i just knew there was something but i could not put my finger on it , however i knew i could not allow him to bully Akira . My next step was a Mc Timoney chiropractor who worked told me that Storm had some vertibrae in his neck out of alignment and a slight twist in his back , which would have been causing him some discomfort. She asked me lots of questions and the one thing that stuck in my mind was Storm rubbing his face along the couch i had presumed his ears were bothering him as he did have a wee bit of trouble with his ears back then , but she told me it was more likely that he was getting headaches , not something i had really ever considered , we made a few visits to her and she worked on him and after every session he was so much more relaxed , on our second visit she noticed that he also had a slight twist in his face , which had probably been caused by a blow to his head at some point Even after the first session his behaviour improved again and he was fine with Akira , i am not suggesting these are the same kind of problems but just thought i would mention them as a chiropractor might be worth looking into for your boy as well . As vets are not specialised in any one field and are usually more like our GP's good at the basics but as i said not specialists . If he is stressed a Dap diffuser might help or even the Dap spray , again worth trying although they dont work for all dogs they might help . Not being nosey but if he is insured maybe they will pay for a behaviourist , some do some dont but again maybe worth looking into ? Good luck Fiona xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nouggatti Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 (edited) There may be something in the whole hormonal thing, others will know better, but do you have a DAP (the plug in thingummy?) That may help with nerves/stress. Also what do you do when Dylan does the guarding e.g. for the bed and sofa? For the coffee table I'd take the rather simplistic view of removing that which causes it to be guarded. I had a similiar (ish) issue with Sean wolfhound who would mug certain dogs in the household at certain times, when he was on the sofa, when he was going through doors and encountered the enemy of the day, and if he percieved they had a toy/treat he wanted. He was entire at the time, and he was then neutered. He also had full bloods done including thyroid which can if overactive cause aggression in dogs, (think it's overactive, it's the one that makes them thin rather than prone to weight, I can never remember which is over and which is under), anyway his was normal. That helped to an extent, but we also put a program in place to train him to stop whatever behaviour it was, e.g. with sitting on the sofa, he was allowed sit on the sofa and gradually was introduced to other dogs coming up and sitting by the sofa and having a cuddle, until he got to a point he would share, with the door thing he was trained to stop and wait to be told to go through the door when told. Just another question, do both dogs get individual time on their own with you at all? As I said I'm no expert and others with more experience and knowledge will doubtless have more/better advice. Edited March 19, 2008 by nouggatti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abby Posted March 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 how old is Clive and why is he entire ( is a medical or age related reason for example ) Clive is 2 yrs 5 months. He is entire mainly because we're of the 'don't mess if it aint broke' brigade, but also partly because he has always been a fairly shy sausage and while he was still young and growing up we didn't want to take away anything that might help his confidence 'naturally'. Obviously he is now pretty much grown up... My next step was a Mc Timoney chiropractor who worked told me that Storm had some vertibrae in his neck out of alignment and a slight twist in his back , which would have been causing him some discomfort. She asked me lots of questions and the one thing that stuck in my mind was Storm rubbing his face along the couch i had presumed his ears were bothering him as he did have a wee bit of trouble with his ears back then , but she told me it was more likely that he was getting headaches , not something i had really ever considered , we made a few visits to her and she worked on him and after every session he was so much more relaxed , on our second visit she noticed that he also had a slight twist in his face , which had probably been caused by a blow to his head at some point Even after the first session his behaviour improved again and he was fine with Akira , i am not suggesting these are the same kind of problems but just thought i would mention them as a chiropractor might be worth looking into for your boy as well . As vets are not specialised in any one field and are usually more like our GP's good at the basics but as i said not specialists . If he is stressed a Dap diffuser might help or even the Dap spray , again worth trying although they dont work for all dogs they might help . Not being nosey but if he is insured maybe they will pay for a behaviourist , some do some dont but again maybe worth looking into ? Good luck Fiona xx Thanks Fiona - that's very interesting. When Clive was checked over by the vet, it was just a general check-up with our new vet - first visit and all that. I didn't ask specifically about the guarding, so it might be worth going back with that in mind. I will check out our insurance just in case they cover it, though because we changed insurers in January, adn this started well before that, it might not wash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nouggatti Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Abby, one thing I forgot to say is that with Sean, he got worse around age three, I always did think it was partly due to his maturing as an adult dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abby Posted March 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 It could of course be that he just doesn't like having Dylan around, so when life gets stressful (i.e. the move) he focuses his stress on Dylan? But then, a lot of the time they have such fun together. You're right Nouggatti, he's not properly mature yet. And of course, there is also the thing we did which you're not supposed to do which is get two dogs the same age...got Dylan at 14 months when Clive was 15 months. In our defence we did think Dylan was a few months younger, but not much. Silly of us probably, but done now. ps. I love that you have a dog called 'Sean' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nouggatti Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 (edited) It could of course be that he just doesn't like having Dylan around, so when life gets stressful (i.e. the move) he focuses his stress on Dylan? But then, a lot of the time they have such fun together. You're right Nouggatti, he's not properly mature yet. And of course, there is also the thing we did which you're not supposed to do which is get two dogs the same age...got Dylan at 14 months when Clive was 15 months. In our defence we did think Dylan was a few months younger, but not much. Silly of us probably, but done now. ps. I love that you have a dog called 'Sean' LOl thanks, Sean came to us with that name, we were very very fortunate to adopt him via Jacqui D (He's an Irish Wolfhound so the name is apt) Anyway, I would believe given my experience of both Sean, and of Loppy and Jake (we had to keep them completely seperated for 18 months, but that was serious case of hatred, and ended with them happy to share a sofa) that with proper management, and given that the problem is purely a personality issue as opposed to any health issue that you could resolve this. The maturity issue may be relevant in that he's potentially now asserting himself more. If you could, a good behaviourist might well help you loads. Good luck Edited March 19, 2008 by nouggatti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summersun Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 hi, it sounds like he's a bully and is claiming more and more stuff for himself and blocking your poor other dog from getting anything you need to manage manage manage - dont let him bully ;) i would also reccommend contacting Bev at www.kizkiznobite.co.uk mainly because if i am right she's helping me with the exact same thing with my foster dog and inside a WEEK she's helped me virutally stop it completely most of the time i now have 3 happy waggy dogs yay !! claire x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summersun Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 for some reason i cant edit but i have some good video footage of this happening if you would like me to try and post it then let me know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts