Barf Question

[Natpants]

Erm. I know the whole point of BARF is feeding raw but are they any bones that dogs cannot eat? I've ordered turkey bits and chicken wings and also some lamb pieces with bones in - just wanted to check the lamb was okay to feed raw? Also, everywhere I read about meaty bones - what does this actually mean? Meat fed whole with bones intact as opposed to say chicken breasts with bones removed OR actual meaty bones like marrow bones?

[Ruthi (borrowadog)]

Raw Meaty Bones is a book about the prey model of raw feeding, by an australian vet. Prey model basically means that if you can't feed whole critters, you can at least feed a balance of meat, bone and offal to replicate it as closely as possible. The generally accepted proportion is 10% bone, 10% offal the rest muscle meat and fat (which includes heart). So you can feed something like chicken wings, but its much higher in bone than a whole chicken so it will need to be balanced out with other bone free stuff.

 

All raw bones are safe, but weight bearing bones of large mammals(especially marrow bones in cattle) are hard enough to break teeth. Be prepared for grizzly crunching noises when she gets her gob around the stuff - you will get used to the noise! Its actually quite difficult to get truly meaty raw bones at a sensible price, other than poultry. I do sometimes pick up lamb's breast cheaply, but on the whole I give Tiger meaty and offally stuff, and the meaty ribs from Landywoods that have some traces of meat, but are basically tasty bones.

 

Beware of feeding large quantities of liver in one sitting. Purdey will be happy, but the aroma of swamp will make your eyes water!!!!!

 

Nowadays relatively few people believe in feeding veg - which makes life a lot easier. But some fish is good. Tiger just loves fish heads - either the ones I give him off our trout, or the ones the fishmonger gives me for free. Also if Purdey likes raw eggs (try her) they are very nutritious. Some people give the egg in its shell, some freeze in the shell - its all a matter of finding out what your dog likes.

 

Remember that meaty meals have no cheap filler, so the amount you need to feed looks like very little. Feed 2-3% of your dog's bodyweight. In Purdey's case, because she is not super active, I'd start at the bottom end of the scale. Expect her to tell you she is starving at first - she'll be used to a bloated tum - but do not weaken! I also only feed once a day now, and that seems to work well.

 

You know where I am if you want to chat about it - Tiger has been fed raw for nearly a year now, and is much healthier.

 

Ruth

[Natpants]

Thanks Ruth It's complicated further by the fact that I have to be careful about purine levels as she's a dally so offal, fish, beans etc have to be kept to a minimum, etc. Tonight she's had a chicken breast (as I've not got any chicken wings, having been in hospital and not being able to drive I won't get some til tomorrow), half a raw egg and shell, half a jacket potato, some fish oil, half a clove of garlic, pureed raw apple (without the pip and core), raw broccoli, raw carrot, with extra water, bio yoghurt and I think somethign else went in there too I've ordered some lamb with bones, turkey pices, chicken wings, lamb's liver and sardines, cottage cheese, bio yoghurt, eggs etc from the supermarket, want to try it for a week or two before ordering the meat from a proper wholesaler(foudn that website as well Ruth, are they quite flexible about delivering? I know they will delvier to Birmingham though). I won't be feeding cereal or pasta to beign with as I am trying to rule out food allergies one by one. But I will probably try to feed veg and other stuff as well as the meat, not least becasue it's cheap and bulks out the meal and slows her down. Oh - and Purdie is ALWAYS starving and permanently stands next to the food cupboard so we;re used to that! Despite not being walked for 7 motnhs she's not put on any weight as she's such a high energy dog so I will probably start off feeding a fairly normal portion and adjust accordingly - she's on the slim side as it is so she can afford to gain a few pounds.

 

What do you think? How does that sound? I know I have a lot more reading to do.

 

Not sure what quanties to feed the lamb or chicken in, and will feed one offal subtitute meal a week. I am still feeding one "normal" meal of kibble a day as I don't want to shock her system (apparently they can develop skin conplaints due to an excess of toxins coming out or something? )

 

(please excsue writing/spelling if it's a bit hit and miss, I'm a bit blurry eyed still!)

[Natpants]

Ok, I've been feeding Purdie raw for a few days now, must admit for the first couple I mixed in some of her regular food but got lazy and haven't and now she seems to be having problems, specifically her poo is tiny and chalky, is this normal or is she constipated? Bit worried now I don't know what I'm doing.

[LukaBeama]

Feeding Barf does result in much smaller, firmer poo that does have a chalky apperance if they have been eating lots of bone. However, if she is straining to pass poo it would probably be a good idea to give her less bone and more muscle meat and veg for the next few meals Mine have bones (poultry necks, lamb ribs etc) every second or third meal and the other meals are largely muscle meat (normally rabbit, lamb or beef) and veg, they have organ meat (liver or kidney) a couple of times a week and tinned fish (pilchards) twice a week.

[Caz]

Ok, I've been feeding Purdie raw for a few days now, must admit for the first couple I mixed in some of her regular food but got lazy and haven't and now she seems to be having problems, specifically her poo is tiny and chalky, is this normal or is she constipated? Bit worried now I don't know what I'm doing.

 

Sounds perfect to me - that's the point about BARF - less waste !

 

If she seems to be struggling to get it out add a bit more veggie puree to her diet to loosen it up.

 

Caz

[Natpants]

She doesn't seem to be straining particularly. I generally have been giving her two small lmab pieces with a sardine or a raw egg, or two chicken wings with the same, probably twice as much mushed/watery greens, fed twice a day, does that sound ok? The lamb doesn't have much bone in...

[LukaBeama]

That sounds fine to me As others have said, one of the great things about BARF is very small poo that is really easy to pick up and doesn't even smell. As long as she doesn't seem uncomfortable with the harder poo then I'm sure she'll be fine. If mine have a very boney meal (lots of ribs with little meat on) or eat a recreational bone (pork legs etc) they will have very hard poo the next day, if they seem to be having problems I would give them lots of veg which you are doing anyway so it sounds like you are doing fine Any veg that grows above ground will help loosed poo (whereas root veggies firm the poo) and liver will also loosen poo quite a lot too

[Natpants]

Thanks, that's ace

[Natpants]

Something scary happened yesterday. Purdie was doing the poo dance and I had to fish great chunks of bone out of her Not only must it have hurt but surely it could have caused damage? Really not so sure about feeding raw now. COuld I somehow get ground bone to feed her or just feed the meat?

[LukaBeama]

What bones had she been eating Nat? When I first switched over I had a couple of problems as my two didn't chew properly and so rather large bits of chicken wing (and bone) would reappear from either end. It could be that Purdie isn't chewing properly, I would recommend bashing chicken wings with a hammer to break the bones when you are starting off or hold one end so that she has to chew it. If you don't feel comfortable feeding bone then you can use the frozen minces (AMP/Prizechoice) as they have 5% ground bone in them anyway or you can use a mincer to make your own mince (with bone) from chicken or rabbit etc . I tend not to feed mine much chicken wings now (as I only feed organic and can't get hold of them cheaply) and they have more lamb ribs which they seem to chew much better and I never see any bits of bone in poo.

[Natpants]

It was lamb bone. She's a gagnet anyway and doesn't chew her food so it's a bit worrying. Do prizechoice do anything other than beef? She can't have beef being a dally as it's too high in purines. I need to sort out a proper supplier really - this lot of stuff came from Tesco

[LukaBeama]

Ah okay, was it a lamb shank or lamp chop then? I wouldn't recommend feeding those as they can be too hard and splinter. With lamb I would stick to either ribs or neck AMP do a whole range of mince, lamb, rabbit, tripe, chicken, white fish etc so not just beef. If you order it they do bags of lamb mince/poultry hearts/liver etc too

[Natpants]

Ah okay, was it a lamb shank or lamp chop then? I wouldn't recommend feeding those as they can be too hard and splinter. With lamb I would stick to either ribs or neck AMP do a whole range of mince, lamb, rabbit, tripe, chicken, white fish etc so not just beef. If you order it they do bags of lamb mince/poultry hearts/liver etc too

You is clever and knowledgable lady Fank oo

[Dizzycharm]

Cider vinegar is good for helping the dog break down bones

 

We actually buy our chicken carcasses already minced (mum couldn't get used to chicken wings, so this is perfect). We get all our meat from Landywoods which is delivered, minimum order £50 (we've got 6 dogs, so no probs about that). To have a look at website, just type in the name on google, or I think the address is the name then co.uk ???