Dog Borstal - What Did You Think?

[Ian]

This weeks Dog Borstal featured Casper, an apparently dog aggressive greyhound who appeared to overcome much of these problems with the trainer simply letting him on a slacker lead and Wilson an American Bulldog who was sadly ultimately put to sleep when they felt they couldn't chance him with their children & it was claimed no rescue would help him due to aggression.

 

From what was shown he appeared to me to just behave as he'd been allowed / brought up to behave. Quite boisterous, obviously a powerful dog and yet even when apparently aggressive no one was harmed. To me if he'd wanted to do them any major harm he could have done - owner & vet were certainly both looking scared of him - before he'd done anything. I didn't personally think he was that aggressive at any point & can't believe a more experienced owner couldn't have worked with him to overcome his problems.

 

If you sa\w it what did you think?

[Helly]

if you had children as small as the lady had, would you still be saying the same thing? Like you, i dont have kids, so i sat wondering if i would work at his issues, take more training/behaviour work and deal with his issues. For a big boisterous dog, showing the potential to bite i would not be prepared to persist with small children in the house. I would give it a go purely because i live alone and the only person likely to get damaged would be me and a qualified trainer. I however do not have a great deal of AmBull experience and maybe those who do would give a better insight.

 

Do bear in mind there is 4 days training and handling all edited into an hours program too. We dont even begin to see everything that happens in that time. She did say at the end she rang breed clubs and rescues who could not help her. I felt sorry for her having to make that decision but as most parents do, she put the safety of her children before her love of her dog. i dont blame her for that.

 

 

 

As for the greyhound... i found Roberts statements a little bit sweeping at times. Many greyhounds come straight off the track and settle into home life, and some are even owned by hippies who mean well I too used a spray collar to deter paddy who was determined to attack every dog he met that wasnt greyhound and while i didnt like it, the results were good and over time he became a much more sociable dog. Im sure over time Casper will continue to improve if his mum continues with his socialising.

[Ian]

I'm not saying she should have kept him - she was the dogs problem in my opinion & I do think he needed out of there. I'd perhaps blame her more for having chosen a dog in the first place which she was scared of, presumably had little experience of, and had made no apprent effort to enlist help at a less serious stage - eg when he first started mouthing, rather than a decision to rehome him having reached that point.

 

What I question more is whether a rescue who had actually seen Wilson would have taken her word / description as reliable. I know they are experienced trainers but 3 / 4 days was nevergoing to be enough to alter his behaviour after she's taught him it overa long time.

 

All be it on dogs rather than people Casper the greyhound initially appeared to be showing a more aggressive nature than Wilson - & all Robert did was slacken the lead. I'd agree with you that his statements on greyhounds seemed rather sweeping.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Ian

[Lainey]

my feelings, as the owner of an american bulldog, is that pathetic wimpy owners should NOT be allowed to own any dog let alone a bull breed. how a dog can be deemed as being so aggressive it needs to be put down- whilst wagging its tail beggars belief to me!!! very annoyed that that woman was allowed to ruin such a beautiful dog. my dogs are well behaved and also spend lots of time having snuggles on the couch- they just know where the line is and dont try to cross it, but maybe ive just got amazing doggies

[safneo]

I was sad that the Am bully was PTS but I saw that the owner had no choice. Having said that she shouldnt have let it get to that stage before seeking help I am sure that it was just lack of training, exercise and bounderies that had caused him so much stress. Had I been in her shoes, I think I would have taken time out of the family home, extra to dog borstal and tried working with him for longer. She owed him that at least. But as others say, we dont know what went on that wasnt shown I was surprised that one of the quys didnt swap with Lesley though to see if a male might have more impact on his training.

 

As for the grey, I dont think he was a problem really. Lots of greys (and other dogs for that matter) will never be able to go off lead due to the way they are trained/what they are trained for. As long as they are exercised adequately, and where possible allowed space on a long line to allow a bit of freedom, its a lot better than 1000's of dogs that are house/garden bound 24/7. He just needs socialising and walking without the other dogs in his family to allow him to build up a bond and get one to one training with his owner.

[GSDFan]

With rescues inundated with Bull types I doubt a place would have been found easily even for a nice, easy dog. A dog with problems would be even harder to place.

 

Had it been a dog of mine then I would have worked with the problems. I do however think that with small children in the house it is a very different matter and their safety should be paramount.

[Fee]

I'm afraid I was in tears when I heard Wilson had been pts

 

I don't blame his owner, though. I didn't get the impression the decision was taken lightly at all, and I'm sure that the trainer was experienced enough to tell boisterous/mouthy behaviour from true aggression. I wouldn't have trusted that dog around my own children either.

 

The owner did try to rehome, but given the problems finding homes for any bull breed at the moment I'd have thought the chance of getting someone with the right sort of experience to take on an AmBull with aggression problems would be pretty slim.

 

The remarks about greyhounds made me really cross. Of course they are true about some dogs, but not the majority. I guess behaviourists only see the 'problem' dogs and not the hundreds that slot into home life without any issues.

[melissa]

I was very sad think the owner had very good intentions but really should never have had the dog, don't know much about the breed but not sure it should be your first choice as an inexperienced dog owner with small kids? I know he had a waggy tail but his behaviour was agressive at times & he was clearly not at ease, as the owner said she had been told 'you can't pass the problem on' so I would have hated to have to be in her shoes but as has been said i don't have young kids anymore & if I did I wouldn't have been able to trust him. Such a shame a product of the wrong environment how ever well intended for him. On a pure selfish note tonight was the first time Snoopey & Roly watched dog borstal without barking at the telly, proof I suppose that given time most dogs can adapt but if they are unpredictable with aggression it must be a horrible choice to make - RIP Wilson

[scotslass]

my feelings, as the owner of an american bulldog, is that pathetic wimpy owners should NOT be allowed to own any dog let alone a bull breed.

 

That's a sweeping statement. Define "pathetic, wimpy owners" please?

[~Canis-Equus~]

I was extremely angry about the Am Bull.... not particularly that he was put to sleep, but because it wasnt ONCE mentioned that the reason for his behaviour was complete and utter lack of training or sensible handling.

 

He wasnt dangerous because of his breed, he was dangerous because he was untrained,unsocialised, fearful, had taken play biting too far..... and because he was big.

 

There are a lot of breeds that are taht sort of size and weight... they are ALL capable of that, but not once was it mentioned, so unfortunately it DID come across to the public that american bulldogs are inherently aggressive/dangerous.

[Red Rotties]

I was extremely angry about the Am Bull.... not particularly that he was put to sleep, but because it wasnt ONCE mentioned that the reason for his behaviour was complete and utter lack of training or sensible handling.

 

He wasnt dangerous because of his breed, he was dangerous because he was untrained,unsocialised, fearful, had taken play biting too far..... and because he was big.

 

There are a lot of breeds that are taht sort of size and weight... they are ALL capable of that, but not once was it mentioned, so unfortunately it DID come across to the public that american bulldogs are inherently aggressive/dangerous.

 

Well hopefully it may put of people breeding them willy nilly if that they cant be sold because of it. In my nearest large town american bulls are the new staffi, its giving the poor staffi a break but breeding isnt being done for the good of the breed at all

[redditchlady]

With rescues inundated with Bull types I doubt a place would have been found easily even for a nice, easy dog. A dog with problems would be even harder to place.

 

Had it been a dog of mine then I would have worked with the problems. I do however think that with small children in the house it is a very different matter and their safety should be paramount.

 

 

I agree with Jackie here. Although I didn't see the programme this week. Kiddies can never be put at risk.

 

That's a sweeping statement. Define "pathetic, wimpy owners" please?

 

 

I'd like that explained too please. Pathetic and wimpy means????????

 

Thanking in advance.

 

Kazz xx

[phoebejo]

I had never watched Dog Borstal before last night so I'd no ideas about the format or any of the trainers methods. All I did see was an out of control dog who was like a ticking bomb. He had no qualms about biting, he did it randomly and with no warning and to me he was a huge accident waiting to happen. Yes his owners had failed him by not receiving correct training sooner but he had reached the point where those children, and infact anybody around him, were in danger. In the end, they did the best thing for him, he went to sleep surrounded by those he loved in a calm & quiet manner. The outcome could have been very different for him if he had been allowed to continue behaving the way he did.

[vodaka999]

my feelings, as the owner of an american bulldog, is that pathetic wimpy owners should NOT be allowed to own any dog let alone a bull breed. how a dog can be deemed as being so aggressive it needs to be put down- whilst wagging its tail beggars belief to me!!! very annoyed that that woman was allowed to ruin such a beautiful dog. my dogs are well behaved and also spend lots of time having snuggles on the couch- they just know where the line is and dont try to cross it, but maybe ive just got amazing doggies

 

Can i just point out that a wagging tail doesnt always mean " Im pleased to see you ".I know a dog that will wag its tail when he is NOT pleased to see you and is about to try and bite you.

 

I dont think she should have taken on Wilson not having any breed experience, she said once she had decided on him she did some reading on the internet and in books and found out about them, IMO that should have been done before she had gotten him and she might have realised how much work they can be and decided against it, especially with young children in the house simply due to the size of them and the fact they can be exuberent as Wilson was and knock over a young child not because i think they are untrustworthy in any way, but ultimatly i think she made the right decsion with him. she couldnt safely keep him and in the current bull breed climate she would have struggled tremendously to find him a kennel space ( where he could have languished for months ) and if he was rehomed and did anyone damage that wouldnt have done his breed any favours.

[cycas]

The remarks about greyhounds made me really cross. Of course they are true about some dogs, but not the majority. I guess behaviourists only see the 'problem' dogs and not the hundreds that slot into home life without any issues.

 

I missed it - what did he say?