Poem

[Muriel]

An injection site fibrosarcoma takes another

one of Gods special creations

 

A mother tries to comfort her daughter in the exam room,

After euthanasia twenty minutes seems like twenty years.

The little girl still wants her cat to live.

But no one stops to really listen, and no one really really hears.

 

One in twenty two thousand, it doesn't happen that often,

The doctors say, as each try to deny,

But those words will do nothing to soften

The pain of the little child we all have inside.

 

She still wants that smug face and warm ball of fur

That snuggled with her in the night,

Made bread and purred as she lie sleeping.

Now he's gone, leaving it cold and empty, no longer at her side.

 

A home was once filled with love and laughter.

The clown made them laugh every day.

He swaggered in the cat door, said, " Yo, I'm here please feed me,"

As he took for himself the very best chair cause they're all his anyway.

 

These loving people trusted the caretaker,

The one who took an oath "to do no harm."

The ostrich that is still in denial,

And even yet fails to heed and warn.

 

Vaccine associated sarcoma, that deadly stalker,

That comes unannounced again and again,

The fibrosarcoma takes another one of God's special creations,

The killer in the hands of the caretaker causes yet more needless pain.

 

After ten years we have safer vaccinations.

A least seven years the prevention has been proven to last.

Our clients are willing to listen,

Will we do the right thing at last?

 

Why do caretakers give potions that are not needed?

When enough is enough, why give more, why push on?

“Who killed the Darling Buds of May?

Please help me to understand why this still goes on?

 

Why is it that change always brings resistance?

To a new challenge, and what was not so recently proven wrong.

How can anyone counter such persistence?

Arms folded and unsubstantiated beliefs that continue fixed like stone.

 

"I haven't seen the data."†(This doesn't mean its not there, it is.)

"It doesn't matter what it says anyway.

I don't believe it and I'm not changing.

I've always done it this way."

 

Call it controversial.

If that means it is being discussed, that is true.

But it doesn't mean there is data to support both sides.

There is no data to support giving annual vaccinations.

The studies show it has no effect, the benefit is unproved.

 

And now the mother and daughter are finally leaving.

That trust will never be the same.

Hearts are broken, tears are shed and pain is lasting,

The vaccine manufacturers and the caretakers play this game.

 

This experience, was it sharp and hurt-full?

For the doctor as well as the girl?

As sharp and hurt-full as all the unnecessary vaccines

Recommended outside of the" Ivory Towers" called Veterinary Schools,

 

In what some call " the trenches" or " The real the world."

After ten years, this is the course things have taken.

Its never to late to listen, to read, and finally to change.

A caretaker should be willing to challenge their beliefs and move forward,

Or medicine will always stay the same.

 

Patients were once killed by snake oil potions and remedies they didn't need,

Today those claims unsubstantiated by scientific data seem pretty lame,

Still in spite Published Studies Doctors never have time to read,

Again caretakers must face the accusations, the doubt, the shame, and the blame.

Bob Rogers

 

From here http://www.critteradvocacy.org/

Edited November 29, 2006 by Muriel

[bebe]

Very thought-provoking, and Im glad I dont vaccinate after that, I was starting to worry if I was doing the right thing, but Im sure I am

[Muriel]

bebe, I'm sure you're right too Just reading half of the links I keep posting would convince most people makes me so sad to see all those beautiful dogs dying needlessly due to greed.

[collies r best]

It really does make you think doesn't it? So many dogs suffer seizures and many other problems [ as my Hector did]and you do wonder why and whats the common link. At my vet they're trying to get me to vaccinate my brain damaged kitten[ hes not too badly damaged but isn't 'right'] but as he has occasional fits i've refused to do it.

[Muriel]

OMG!!! That is SO sick! The vaccine manufacturers clearly state that no animal should be vaccinated if it is not 100% well. Common sense too. You stick to your guns and/or change vet to one with some common sense and compassion or tell them you will, they may well change their tune. And it's all about money too

 

I lost my Cassie to seizures in January. Although I never had her vaccinated, 7 years of them building up in her system every year took its toll in the end and totally out of the blue too, an incredible shock for us both

[Kathyw]

Muriel I am considering this road for my animals as I have never really been easy with yearly vacs.

 

I told my vet I will only have the Lepre whatever one because of them swimming in ponds etc and I do not know if there is a nosode for this.

 

I have one other concern which is I would not be allowed to foster if my animals did not have vaccs.

[PrincessC]

It would be interesting if this thread had a poem written by someone whose dog had died from parvo

[Carole Stitcher]

It would be interesting if this thread had a poem written by someone whose dog had died from parvo

 

http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/neuro/AltMed/Alt_Med_Neuro.htm

 

This link is to the University of Florida School of Veterinary Medicine. It seems a shame that US vets are so far in advance of UK ones in utilising recent research. As the article in question deals with several issues, I have copied and pasted the relevant paragraph below

 

Vaccinations:

Two things have been ingrained in the teaching of veterinarians for years: 1) dogs should eat dog food and 2) dogs should be vaccinated yearly for every disease imaginable. Hopefully, we have dispelled the myth for the former; that is, dogs should eat good food, not necessarily dog food. If we place food for dogs on a scale of 1 to 10, then balanced, home-prepared food (such as the diet above) rates a 10, since it can use fresh, choice ingredients. Highly processed food, like hamburgers, french fries and T.V. dinners (which some owners eat), probably only rate a 1 for dogs. Good commercial dog foods rate a 6-7, without other additions. Nature's Recipe (Canine Vegetarian diet) rates an 8.

Currently, we recognize that dogs probably are over vaccinated and there is mounting evidence that these vaccinations may play a role in the increasing incidence of auto-immune diseases and even cancers that we see today. Unfortunately, no one knows the real need for vaccination, but yearly boosters for all infectious diseases is overkill. Clearly, in many cases, the vaccinations are not necessary and giving them may cause problems. The risks of not giving vaccinations (once the healthy young dog has been adequately immunized) is becoming less than the risk of giving them. This is an important issue and more data will be coming based upon the current research and observations by concerned veterinarians. This is what appears to be the prevailing view that dogs should receive their puppy series against the major canine diseases, including parvovirus and bordetella. These vaccinations should be repeated at 1 year of age. After that time, only necessary vaccines should be given. That includes, of course, the legally required rabies vaccinations. On the other hand, it is clear that rabies vaccination is effective for up to 3 years in the dog. As such, it may be necessary to lobby local and state governments to reflect rabies vaccination requirements which fit the scientific evidence. Once puppihood is over, further parvovirus vaccination is probably unwarranted. The disease in adults is mild and self-limiting. Intranasal vaccination for bordetella may provide life-long immunity. In areas where Lyme's disease or leptospirosis are not prevalent, vaccination for these agents seems unnecessary. On the other hand, vaccination for canine distemper and canine hepatitis virus are probably warranted at some time while the animal ages. There are currently 3 ways to do this: 1) monitor titers and vaccinate when the IgG antibody titer drops below 1:50 (although this may not be any more valid than guessing), 2) re-vaccinate when the dog gets 10-12 years old (which in many cases will be adequate), or 3) play the odds and vaccinate every 3 years (which is similar to the recommendation for cats by the Board of Feline Practitioners).

No one wants their pet to contract a preventable disease, yet most healthy animals do not need vaccination as often as is currently practiced. Immunodefficient animals may not respond adequately regardless of the vaccination schedule. Discuss these options with your veterinarian and make an informed choice about vaccination. Hopefully, your veterinarian will have thought and struggled with these issues and be able to support your decision about your pet's health. Remember: Just because you dog does not need yearly vaccinations, they should still have a yearly check-up by your veterinarian!

 

 

Thought provoking poem Muriel, if there's one thing that worse than losing a loved animal companion, it's the possibility that you lost them through your own ignorance and an acceptance of the 'norm', rather than investigating all the facts and coming to an informed decision.

[PrincessC]

This link is to the University of Florida School of Veterinary Medicine. It seems a shame that US vets are so far in advance of UK ones in utilising recent research. As the article in question deals with several issues, I have copied and pasted the relevant paragraph below

 

 

Of my dogs, the ones that I and my vet jointly judge to be 'safe' if vaccinated on a three year protocol are, I'm not prepared to put my others, or my fosters at risk from parvo (they are all vacc'd annually against lepto, however old or 'immune' they are judged to be - I live in the country, they all swim in the local streams) My concern is that people read articles published in the US and assume that the same applies here, which it clearly doesn't or people don't investigate properly or rely on titre testing, which can't read memory cells, only current antibodies

 

I consider myself to have investigated the facts and have made an informed decision, thank you

[Rachel]

Once puppihood is over, further parvovirus vaccination is probably unwarranted. The disease in adults is mild and self-limiting

 

Must say that it was neither mild or self limiting in either of the adults that I have personally watched die of Parvo. Admittedly neither had a known vaccination history but the fact is that it will still kill a previously fit, healthy adult dog.

[Carole Stitcher]

Of my dogs, the ones that I and my vet jointly judge to be 'safe' if vaccinated on a three year protocol are, I'm not prepared to put my others, or my fosters at risk from parvo (they are all vacc'd annually against lepto, however old or 'immune' they are judged to be - I live in the country, they all swim in the local streams) My concern is that people read articles published in the US and assume that the same applies here, which it clearly doesn't or people don't investigate properly or rely on titre testing, which can't read memory cells, only current antibodies

 

I consider myself to have investigated the facts and have made an informed decision, thank you

 

 

The article is not just any one published in America, it is published by a School of Veterinary Medicine, not some crank who likes to spread scary stories. There are many similar informed articles to be found in the UK. You seem to have missed the point that parvo in an adult dog is normally mild and self limiting.

 

Whilst by vaccinating you may not be putting the dogs at risk from the diseases themselves, but are putting them at risk of allergic reactions and auto immune conditions, something that is also becoming a concern in the over vaccination of humans, who are not vaccinated with anything like the frequency that animals are. (Sorry, but can't quote a link for that information, as it is something that my chest consultant told me)

 

As I understand it, the Lepto vacc does not cover all strains, (is in fact similar in the way it works to the human flu jab) and is normally only effective for about six months anyway.

 

Noah and Ruth both have had their puppy vacc's and their first booster, but after a lengthy discussion with my extremely competent vet, we have decided to titre test them in Jan when they are due and make the decision from there. My vet is even prepared to argue the toss with the insurance company, should that become necessary, so confident is he that this is the right decision for my dogs, though obviously less profitable for him. They will also probably have the kennel cough and Lepto.

 

My comment about informed decisions was not directed towards you, but to the author of the poem.

[PrincessC]

The article is not just any one published in America, it is published by a School of Veterinary Medicine, not some crank who likes to spread scary stories. There are many similar informed articles to be found in the UK. You seem to have missed the point that parvo in an adult dog is normally mild and self limiting.

 

I haven't missed the point, I actually don't believe it to be true, and I know a number of people who are active in rescue and have watched previously healthy adult dogs die from parvo.

 

Whilst by vaccinating you may not be putting the dogs at risk from the diseases themselves, but are putting them at risk of allergic reactions and auto immune conditions, something that is also becoming a concern in the over vaccination of humans, who are not vaccinated with anything like the frequency that animals are. (Sorry, but can't quote a link for that information, as it is something that my chest consultant told me)

 

I have a dog who is hypothyroid, so I do know something about auto immune conditions and that is why I have taken particular care to reach the conclusions I have about vaccinating my dogs, judging each on an individual basis, knowing what I do about their health and their vaccination history, with my extremely competent vet.

 

As I understand it, the Lepto vacc does not cover all strains, (is in fact similar in the way it works to the human flu jab) and is normally only effective for about six months anyway.

 

I'd agree with that, but would still rather have them protected, particularly my oldie.

 

Noah and Ruth both have had their puppy vacc's and their first booster, but after a lengthy discussion with my extremely competent vet, we have decided to titre test them in Jan when they are due and make the decision from there. My vet is even prepared to argue the toss with the insurance company, should that become necessary, so confident is he that this is the right decision for my dogs, though obviously less profitable for him. They will also probably have the kennel cough and Lepto.

 

Since three of mine joined me as adults, I have no idea what their vaccination history was prior to them joining me, so we have had no alternative but to hazard a guess. I'd agree, it is slightly different if you have puppies. As you have already said, lepto is not judged to be valid for a full 12 months, and neither it or the kennel cough vaccine cover all strains but your dogs will probably have those?

 

My comment about informed decisions was not directed towards you, but to the author of the poem.

 

My concern is that people will read the poem and then decide not to vaccinate their dogs. THAT is not an informed decision.

[ClazUK]

My concern is that people will read the poem and then decide not to vaccinate their dogs. THAT is not an informed decision.

 

I feel the same way about the canine-health-concern.org.uk and healthy.net websites - I see them quoted as if the very biased opinions there are the ONLY opinion.

 

How many more dogs die through lack of vaccination? It's not a risk I'm prepared to take.

[bebe]

Im worried now. I dont want to do anything that puts my two at risk, be it vaccine-related or parvo. If anything happened to one of them because of a vaccine, that I decided they should have, I would never forgive myself. But if either of them caught something that couldve been prevented, Id feel negligent and very guilty

 

 

 

I dont just not vaccinate casually, I tie myself in knots thinking about all the pros and cons, and do a lot of soul-searching, but sometimes I just feel Im doomed whatever choice I make, if they become ill. They had their puppy jabs and follow up a year later, but thats it. They dont go into Kennels or even mix with lots of other dogs much, Ty especially, and I dont live by any sheep or livestock, but is that enough I cant even get advice from my vet, he,s "old school" and sends letters out every year reminding me to vaccinate, when I asked about titre testing he was very unhelpfull actually. Ive spoken to a homeopathic vet who obviously is against vaccinating, but are they both biased in their different views? Of course they are.

 

 

 

Who do we listen too? Im genuinly concerned and dont know what to do really, but something keeps nagging at the back of my mind NOT to vaccinate. Its a real dilemma.

[Kathyw]

I will not be allowed to foster but I think I have almost made up my mind not to vaccinate either of my dogs. Elsa is ten and I would have stopped vacs now anyway as we did with Grip. I will however check both dogs with a homeopathic vet. Jimgy no longer hacs vacs either.

 

Grip, Raffles and Twospussycat did not have vacs for the last few years of their lives, this was with the full agreement of my vet. He said they would have had enough immunity by then and had no desire to overload their systems with vacs.