Citronella Collars

[Kathyw]

Dale has recommended one of these for CB to stop his barking at certain men.

He used them on his dogs and it stop their barking.

You can also use them with no smell just a puff of air.

 

Anyone here used them and did it help/make it worse?

[reds]

The thing that worries me about these (I have a very barky dog) is that they could just as easily associate the unpleasant experience with something other than barking - like even having a collar put on??

 

Ted. would be the ideal candidate but I am resisting it as I am too worried about the undesirable side effects that might be the consequence. I would rather try and train him using other positive methods which rely upon 'me' and not a physical instrument.

 

Just my opinion as as I say Ted. is a barker.

[Kathyw]

Dale showed me how it works and now his own dogs wear the collar but without the gizmo that sprays, they used to bark at everything now they don't.

 

CB would only wear the collar when we are out with him, never indoors.

[Maria]

Hi Kathy, one of these was suggested by our vets for Boysie as he can bark for Britain when he wants to I personally won't go down that route, as I would worry that it supresses the behaviour, without addressing the cause. And if that behaviour is supressed, he might use a new behaviour instead.

If I were you I would ignore the vet and go to a behaviourist instead.

 

Edited to add that the reasons Dale's dogs bark are probably completely different to why Charley does - Charley doesn't bark at everything does he, just certain men he seems 'scared' of?

Edited September 11, 2006 by Maria

[LurcherGirl]

I have used one on Dylan to stop him from getting killed by trams, which he chased... It had however unexpected side effects - he became generally much more jumpy in every day life; I stopped using it immediately when I noticed that. I have not used nor recommended them since.

 

I would not use one in your situation. Your dog obviously has a problem with certain men, the barking is only a symptom of an underlying problem. If you spray him (air, water, cytronella... all the same), he might well associate the men, he already dislikes, as being the cause for being sprayed at... you might end up with a dog that will suddenly bite rather than just bark (and warn).

 

Don't do it!

 

Instead, start counter-conditioning him. Get him to focus on you when men approach... give him a treat every time a man approaches (regardless of whether he reacts or not), and keep feeding him until the man has past. This will show him that good things happen when men approach, not teach him that bad things happen when men approach.

 

Vera

 

PS. Dylan doesn't chase trams anymore... not as a result of the spray collar, but simply as a result of using food around trams and getting him to focus on me instead.

Edited September 11, 2006 by LurcherGirl

[staffymonkey]

Totally agree with what vera said

 

In my experience, I've found them to be not-so-good. I know someone who tried one on a barky, agressive dog - without the supervision or advice of a behaviourist - and it made him 10 times worse.

 

He started to get more and more agressive, as he wanted to avoid the spray, so tried to attack whatever it was he saw last time he was last sprayed, then got sprayed again, so got more wound up, and so on. It's made wwhat was an already dofficult dog into one that can only really be walked at night as he's so reactive to people, others dogs... anything that moves, really

 

What vera suggests makes total sense to me ... and the other thing I thought, although I'm sure you've tried it already, but have you tried teaching a 'quiet'?

 

I've done it wth Maddie, by giving a comand and treating whenever she pauses between barks (or whines) and making a big fuss of her? It worked really well for me... though I did use really high value treats (cheese and dried liver) to get her to 'get' what it was I wanted

[K9Fran]

I was disgusted to see these for sale in Pets at home today

[PamJade]

Don't like 'em, know one one case where it made the dog worse and another where a passing dog got a blast and then became aggressive as a result.

 

With my border collie cross I just started a litany of low voiced, soothing "It's Okaaaay, nothing to worry about, just staaaay calm" etc as soon as potential trouble approached. I looked like a complete nutter talking to myself and then going wildly ecstatic with praise the moment who/whatever passed whenever he stayed calm. When OH met him about 2 years later he remarked how quiet and placid he was! NOT the whirling dervish who hated men, dogs, bikes etc.

 

Pam

[reds]

... and the other thing I thought, although I'm sure you've tried it already, but have you tried teaching a 'quiet'?

 

I've done it wth Maddie, by giving a comand and treating whenever she pauses between barks (or whines) and making a big fuss of her? It worked really well for me... though I did use really high value treats (cheese and dried liver) to get her to 'get' what it was I wanted

 

I've started trying this with Ted. though am going to teach him to speak first. The problem I have come across is as you say, him 'getting' what it is that I am after. Teddy does competitive obedience so is trained to anticipate rewards for physical body movements/actions. I discovered that if say, he was sitting whilst being told 'quiet', he would associate the quiet command with the act of sitting so when I said quiet he would sit!!! Understandable in retrospect because his training centres on him getting rewards for moving his body (as opposed to his mouth!!)

Gives you an idea though of how associations can work in a canine mind and how very easy it is to accidentally give them the wrong message. I also agree with what others say about the root cause being expressed in some other way. For instance, I managed to contain Ted's noise whilst working in the ring but because the noise was an expression of his excitement, it resulted in him racing instead and losing a bit on the heelwork position. I personally believe that a behaviour 'problem' cannot be solved satisfactorily and to the dogs's benefit by any method that sounds like a quick, easy or simple solution.

[Katiebob]

Well, I admit I have used them on one of my rough collies - and for a similar situation. I was recommended by a reputable behaviourist and to be honest, in my case, it did work or certainly helped, the idea being that it would interrupt the behaviour long enough for me to gain attention and distract the dog from whatever had caused the barking. I would then inter-act with the dog doing something that she enjoyed, away from whatever was scaring her.

 

I can understand people's reservations about these collars and I would recommend that you are shown how to use them properly, rather than just going to buy one from someone who has no experience of their use, although your vet obviously knows what he's doing.

 

The other thing I'd say is that I always used it when she was on a lead, primarily because she was not suitable to be let off lead at that time so I was always in control.

 

Di

[bebe]

iT WAS ONE OF THOSE COLLARS THAT HAS MADE tY AFRAID OF ANY HISSING NOISE, (MY CAPS LOCK IS STUCK AGAIN, IM NOT SHOUTING KATHY, HONEST )

 

I DEFINATELY WOULDNT USE ONE. IT MADE TY JUMPY AND NERVOUS

[Kathyw]

Thank you everyone. That's the collar idea gone now.

 

I have now decided to do it my way. CB will be taken back to the car and ignored every time he misbehaves.

If we only had CB then I would just walk him locally until he learnt he was safe, we were safe and he had no need to protect himself or us. But we have Elsa and I would not have the energy to take CB out on a leash for an hour stomping the streets and then do the same for Elsa.

 

We were late this morning as I wasn't well and we got to Parli and I let them both off. Elsa chased her ball and Cb was sniffing his way along. Then after at least 5 men had walked/jogged pasted him, he decided he didn't like the look of the 6th man and started to bark at him. I put Cb on the leash, Ray held Elsa (she would have followed me) and I took CB back to the car. The car was in deep shade and I opened the windows a bit and then locked the car. Ray sat on a wall where he could see Cb in the car but CB couldn't see Ray. Elsa had her exercise and I was chatting to a very nice lady who may become a Fugee.

Ray went back to the car after 20 mins and gave CB a drink and then sat in car without speaking to CB.

Cb was subdued on the way home, he knew he did something wrong but not what he did, that will come to him. We are going to stay on that part of Parli for a few weeks as I can get CB back to the car quickly, 2 mins the most and Elsa doesn't miss out on her exercise.

We did this with our Blueboy, he loved to fight, the more dogs the better for Blueboy. It took just three weeks and he never had another fight, all it took was three weeks and Blueboy never went for another dog again. As soon as he even looked at another dog, we would say 'Blue and shown him the lead and say Walk on and he did. And even when he was barked at and tormented by other dogs he would not go for them, he would just look at us and then walk on.

[DanishPastry]

I have now decided to do it my way. CB will be taken back to the car and ignored every time he misbehaves.

This is what worries me, that you see it as misbehaving. Charlie is insecure around men, and you are punishing him for this, by putting him back in the car instead of teaching him, like numerous people have suggested, that men are nothing to be afraid of. And that Ray can go there after 20 minutes and not talk to him, do you actually think that after 20 minutes Charlie realises what he has done wrong That he feels guilty, and will learn anything from this? I hate to say this Kathy, but I am so disappointed with this attitude towards Charlie. No matter how you trained your old dogs, Charlie is not them, and you have had SO much good advise here, but you continuously chose to ignore this. I know you like your vet, and he may well be a very good veterinarian, but a behaviourist he is not!

[Maria]

Oh Kathy - I really think Charley is not 'misbehaving', but is genuinely scared of some types of men. Please don't punish him for acting scared. If you were scared of something, and 'shouted' at it, would it help you to be ignored and punished? It might make you not shout again, but your fear would still be there, and it would find a way out somehow.

If you are near to Forest Gate I know a good APBC(?) behavourist who could help you. If Charley is insured you could get a referral?

[Kathyw]

CB is not afraid of all men, there is no type he is afraid of, as I said he will walk passed lots of men and then just decide he doesn't like one of them.

It is unacceptable behaviour to me and it has to stop.

We also 'punished' Blue and it worked.

My vet did not tell me to do this, he suggested the collar. I do not want to use the collar.

We live in the middle of a busy city and our parks are never empty. We cannot avoid passing people and CB has to learn that this behaviour is not acceptable. I will not use a muzzle, as to that will not stop CB lunging at someone he doesn't like the look of - some people are understanding of CB's problems, some are not and those who are not can get very abusive.

I do not have any faith in behaviourists and will not go down that path.

 

We live on a very busy main road with a bus stop outside next doors house. We have a constant stream of people walking past all day. CB was barking at everyone who walked past.

So Ray started to take CB, Elsa and Raffles outside while he had a ciggie and when CB barked at someone, Ray would just put him inside the door and go back outside with Elsa and Raffles leaving CB inside.

CB willl now sit outside and not react at all when anyone walks past. He also used to bark at anyone passing as we took them out for walks or when we came back while we were open ing/closing the front door.

CB no longer barks at anyone walking past.

This is just a step further.